Author Topic: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley  (Read 18378 times)

Offline McHeath

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2009, 12:40:02 PM »
Too bad about the Galion not showing up, can you get your money back?

I don't know anything about 1241s, but the idea of switch in there may be what it was for. 

Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #46 on: October 11, 2009, 02:40:30 PM »
Sorry, I meant 1243 of course.

Offline bingster

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #47 on: October 11, 2009, 04:05:36 PM »
Sorry about the Galion, Stephen.  I'm guessing it's too late to force a refund through Paypal?

That moveable flap on the SC has always caused confusion, but as I recall, somebody on the forum figured it out ages ago.  Unfortunately, I can't recall what was discovered, but it was, indeed, something that applied to only a few models.  To save expense, the paddle thingy was included on all models, even though it did nothing on most of them.
= DARRIN =



Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2009, 02:17:50 PM »
Here's a picture of my latest addition, the SC 1243.  It's not in too bad condition; a bit of paint worn off but not bad for its age.  The plate which goes on the back of the dial card ring is missing, but I've ordered one from Oldphoneworks.  I removed the broken line cord, and tested it with the very long vinyl one that came off my 302, but shortly afterwards found the cloth one which is on it now.  This is a modern cord, designed for WE, so the tails are a bit long at the 'phone end, but it looks ok.

After I fitted this cord it was working, but it's not working now.  On hook it presents a high resistance to the line; when I lift the handset this falls to about 180 Ohms, almost exactly the same as my 302, which is working fine.  If I remove the transmitter the off-hook resistance is high, and the transmitter on its own also measures about 180 Ohms.  All the same as the 302.  If I connect a battery, or the probes of an Ohm-meter to the pins of the plug I hear crackling in the earpiece, so it does produce sound from a signal on the line, and since the resistance it presents to the line is the same as the working 302 it should pick up the line and get a dial tone, but it doesn't.  I can hear nothing at all in the earpiece when it is connected to the line, it's completely dead.  If I call it then it rings fine, so it is connected to the line, and I haven't changed the connections since it was working.  I've tried swapping the transmitter with the one from my 302, since the 1243 has a WE handset on it at present, but that's made no difference.  Any ideas?

« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 03:09:48 PM by Stephen Furley »

Offline Dennis Markham

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2009, 02:26:36 PM »
Stephen, have you tried a different handset cord?  The first thing that comes to mind, since you already replaced the transmitter would be the cord or dial contacts that either are not connected properly or not making the proper contact while the dial is at rest.

I do remember trouble shooting a similar situation once.  I had removed the transmitter from the handset and didn't realize that it was needed to complete the circuit.  Once I figured it out it worked fine.  Obviously, since you replaced your transmitter that is not the problem.  I would suspect the cord (since that's the easiest) first.  Maybe you've done that and I missed something in your description.

Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2009, 03:05:49 PM »
I don't think it can be the cord.  When I remove the transmitter then the resistance across the pins of the plug is high with the handset off-hook; when I replace the transmitter this falls to the 180 Ohm figure, so the transmitter circuit through the cord must be intact.  The fact that I can get crackling noises in the earpiece by touching a battery onto the plug pins means that the receiver circuit must also be intact.  This also means that the dial pulse contacts must be closed.  If I get somebody else to repeatedly touch the battery onto the plug pins while listening to the earpiece then the crackling noise goes when I move the dial off-normal, and comes back when I release the dial, so the shunt contacts seem to be working as well.

I'm really puzzled; if the receiver can procuce sound from a battery touched onto the plug pins, then it should also produce sound from a dial tone signal applied to those same pins, therefore it seems that the exchange equipment, actually our PABX at work, is not sending dial tone.  However, it does send dial tone when the 302 is connected to the same line, and which presents the same resistance to that line.  If 180 ish Ohms from the 302 causes the PABX to send dial tone, then the same resistance from the 1243 should also cause it to do so, and if dial tone was being sent then I should be able to hear it since I can hear the 'signal' from a battery being touched against the plug pins.  I can hear nothing at all when the 'phone is connected to the line, not even side-tone, it sounds completely dead.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2009, 03:59:19 PM »
Pretty strange.  If it was working before and not now, it makes one want to ask "What has changed?"

Everything you have described is indicative of a working phone, so it is probably going to wind up to be something really embarassing when you do find out.

-Bill
-Bill G

Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2009, 05:32:42 PM »
I think you're right, it's going to be something simple, but I haven't had a chance to look at it again yet.  I think the next step is to connect one of my test sets, in monitor mode, in parallel with it, so I can hear if dial tone is actually being sent or not.  After that it's probably down to a circuit diagram, which I have, and a test meter.

Another new 'phone arrived yesterday.  I said I wouldn't buy any more for a while, but this is a rare one; I've never actually seen one before, though I have seen pictures.

In the 'Who collects vintage touch-tones?' thread I posted pictures of several Statesman 'phones and a rather similar light grey Ambassador.  That was a push-button model, but the Ambassador was first introdced as a dial model.  It was short-lived, and few were made.  As far as I know it was only made in this bright yellow colour which BT used at the time on things like their vans.  It was also the colour of a rather irritating cartoon bird character, 'Busby', who was used in their advertising at the time.  The yellow has darkened slightly with age.

This 'phone dates from 1981.  It was really the last 'Standard' BT telephone with a dial.  Unlike the previous departures from the standard design, the Trimphone and the Compact Telephone, which used basically the same circuit as the 746, this was a modernised, electronic, telephone.  It has a conventional label in the centre of the dial, but also has a holder under the handset rest for a 'Statesman' type rectangular one, as was also used on the push-button Ambassador.  This holder flips up, but unlike on the slightly later model there is no card to write numbers on underneath.  It the bottom of the 'phone, under the circuit board there is a conventional bell, albeit a modern, single-coil type.  This differs from the Trimphone which had a tone ringer, and the compact telephone which had the same type of ringer, but in a separate box. The 'R'  button is for earth recall; the other one does nothing, and has a clip fitted to prevent it pressing.  This is an unusual position for buttons; they're normally above the dial or keypad rather than below it.

This was one of the first models to be made for the then new plug and socket telephone system, rather than being hard wired.  Underneath are two small covers, secured by screws.  One covers what looks like it might have been intended to be a battery compartment, though there are no contacts in it in this model, and the other two sockets where the cords are connected.  Modern British 'phones use the same connectors for the cords as are used in the US, but the original intention was different, as on this example.  The line cord has a standard BT type plug on each end, but the handset cord has a variation which was intended to be used for this purpose, but almost never was.  The difference is that the handset cord plug has the latch on the left, rather than on the right as the normal BT line cord plug has.  This idea was soon dropped, and these 'Left-handed' plugs, and the crimping tools for them, are very rare.

So, here it is, the end of an era; the last standard dial model.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 05:46:53 PM by Stephen Furley »

Offline McHeath

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2009, 07:03:51 PM »
That's a real nice looking phone and in a great color.  It's interesting how phone design evolved over the decades, by the time this was made the handset were being set vertically on desk phones and the dial was in a section to the side.  I never really warmed up to that design, though for years and years I had one very similar in design to this as my kitchen phone, it was touch tone.  This is still the main style of office oriented phones that I see, usually with some form of very poor ergonomic design handset and always elevated up it seems.  We have Comdials in the offices of the schools I work at, and danged if they are not hard to figure out what little grey button does what, they all look the same and there are a lot of them.

Again, nice phone. 

Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2009, 05:46:40 PM »
The dial version of the ambassador looks rather odd to me; it looks like it ought to have a keypad rather than a dial.

The SC 1243 just started working; I don't know what the problem was.  The latest Oldphoneworks delivery also contained the metal plate which fits inside the dial card ring, so I now have a card fitted to it.

I've started work on the Kellogg 'Clearbar' again, it's working, but still needs a lot of polishing to get the shine back on it.  No more telephones bought.  A few more decent photographs taken in a studio at work on 5x4 inch sheet film in my MPP monorail camera; hope to do some processing soon.

Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2009, 11:05:06 AM »
I've already posted pictures of the two Trimphones which I had, but I've just obtained an example of the third main type, so here's a picture of all three together.

The rotary dial is a 722, the 10-button LD is a 766, and the 12-button DTMF is a 786.  Actually, it's an 8786RR.  When the new plug and socket system was introduced in about 1979 some of the existing models remained available for a while, but fitted with new-style line cords and modifications to the ringer circuit for use with the new system; these models had a '8' prefix to the model number, so a 746 became a 8746, and a 786 became a 8786.  The RR is for Register (timed break) recall.  Recall was rare on trimphones, as they were mainly used in residential situations.  The recall switch is the flat clear plastic tab at the front of the 'phone.  I added one to the 722, but that one is for earth recall.  It can be clearly seen how the height of the 'phone had to be increased at the front to accommodate the bulky push-button modules of the day.

There were minor variations of each of these models as changes were made during their life.  There was also a field trial model, the 712 I think, which had a circuit based on the 706 rather than the 746.  The main visible difference is that the case is secured by two screws underneath rather than one on top.  Only a small number were made, and when they do turn up for sale they are expensive.

Recently, reproduction Trimhones have been made, presumably with modern components.  They look quite authentic, but I don't know if the original tooling was used.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:24:50 AM by Stephen Furley »

Offline bingster

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2009, 12:58:37 PM »
That's a sharp trio of phones, Stephen.  Very nice!
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Offline Stephen Furley

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2009, 08:43:39 AM »
I prefer the shape of the dial model; the others look  bit 'boxy', but I think build quality on the 8786 is actually better than on the older models.  I can detect no hint of radioactivity from the dial model; whether the gas has leaked out, or the radioactivity has decayed, I don't know.  It is still fitted with the original dial, and the gas tube is still on place.

I've posted pictures of almost all of my rotary dial 'phones now; I think there's just one left, plus a few which are the same model as ones which I've already posted.

I've got quite a few more push-button ones, mainly 10-button with LD signaling.  I've taken good studio pictures of some of the better old dial ones now, and I have E-6 chemicals in stock, so I'll have to get some sheets of film processed and scanned soon.

I've just seen that this is my 300th post!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 08:52:51 AM by Stephen Furley »

Offline gpo706

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2010, 11:20:28 AM »
Stephen, is this in any way similar to your Russian "buttinski"?

It's a Polish machine.

"now this should take five minutes, where's me screwdriver went now..?"

Offline AtomicEraTom

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Re: My Phone Collection - Stephen Furley
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2010, 08:20:59 PM »
So am I.

-Tom Nakielski

Stephen, is this in any way similar to your Russian "buttinski"?

It's a Polish machine.


I am a lineman for the county and I drive the main roads. Searchin' in the sun for another overload.  I hear you singin' in the wires, I can hear you through the whine, and the Witchita Lineman is still on the line.