News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Design line ‘Coquette’

Started by poplar1, March 17, 2023, 10:19:55 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

poplar1

Moderator note:
Information re the design line Coquette, split from this thread:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=27272

—————


The photo shows a set with Tamara dial rather than WE.

Originally, you bought just an empty phone with fake dial and fake cord. Then you called the phone company to have the inside WE parts installed. Then you had to pay monthly rent on the installed parts.

The photo is of a complete retail set that was sold by a non-Bell store.
Mets-en, c'est pas de l'onguent!

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

TelePlay

Quote from: poplar1 on March 17, 2023, 10:19:55 AMThe photo shows a set with Tamara dial rather than WE.

Good eyes to spot that as a non-WE dial. What is the tip off, the finger wheel thickness, center number card holder or something else?

The WE Design Line Coquette may have been manufactured in Korea for WE sale in the US but made with genuine WE components - #6 dial, 4010 network and P1A ringer.

We're there similar non-WE sold phones and if so, using what components?

poplar1

Quote from: TelePlay on March 18, 2023, 12:37:28 AMGood eyes to spot that as a non-WE dial. What is the tip off, the finger wheel thickness, center number card holder or something else?

Dial has a convex plastic finger wheel, and letters are not straight across.

Quote from: TelePlay on March 18, 2023, 12:37:28 AMThe WE Design Line Coquette may have been manufactured in Korea for WE sale in the US but made with genuine WE components - #6 dial, 4010 network and P1A ringer.
I believe the housing was made in Japan. Earliest decorator sets that accepted the WE Kit were stamped with a New York Telephone Co. specification number.

Quote from: TelePlay on March 18, 2023, 12:37:28 AMWe're there similar non-WE sold phones and if so, using what components?


Deco-Tel sets were originally sold to phone companies without the components. They were designed to accept WE, AE, or possibly Stromberg-Carlson parts. Later complete sets used Stromberg-Carlson/Comdial parts.

Here is a Coquette with WE parts: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155458450895 (photo attached below)
Mets-en, c'est pas de l'onguent!

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Contempra

#3
Quote from: poplar1 on March 17, 2023, 10:19:55 AMThe photo shows a set with Tamara dial rather than WE....

I have one but I don't like it because of the little spring on the governor that doesn't adjust like I want it to . In other words, the dial is too slow. but if you have a trick, I want it :D  . The dial is totally in plastic except of course, the governor.

TelePlay

Quote from: Contempra on March 18, 2023, 10:23:53 AMI have one but I don't like it because of the little spring on the governor that doesn't adjust like I want it to .

You have "(which) one," a true WE Coquette or the reproduction with a Tamara dial?

Can you post pictures of the insides, the dial back and the inside base including the network and ringer?


TelePlay

Quote from: poplar1 on March 18, 2023, 05:30:21 AMI believe the housing was made in Japan. Earliest decorator sets that accepted the WE Kit were stamped with a New York Telephone Co. specification number.

Deco-Tel sets were originally sold to phone companies without the components. They were designed to accept WE, AE, or possibly Stromberg-Carlson parts. Later complete sets used Stromberg-Carlson/Comdial parts

First image below is a comparison of the base of a true WE Design Line Coquette with "Made in Korea" and the New York Telco specification number, and serial number on a true Design Line Coquette to the Coquette listed on eBay (also showing it is never a good idea to use a flash to take an image as this) with the almost unreadable original image identification block enhanced.

The second image is that of a true WE Coquette vs the Tamara Dial reproduction posted in an earlier reply. The difference in the finger wheel as well as the lettering differences on the number plate is obvious.

When a WE service came to install the interior components, what were those components? Or was it all of the components already mounted on a second inner base plate that was simply mounted on the base plate seem from the bottom which appears to be the case as shown in the third image below?



MMikeJBenN27

I think you had to bring the phone to a business office, and they would send it to whoever and have the parts installed.  The phone man would come out and install the phone. You paid leasing charges for those parts.  If you discontinued phone service, they would remove those parts and leave you with an empty phone.

Mike

poplar1

#7
QuoteWhen a WE service came to install the interior components, what were those components? Or was it all of the components already mounted on a second inner base plate that was simply mounted on the base plate seem from the bottom which appears to be the case as shown in the third image below?


Mounts on the baseplate from inside: (from TCI library)
Mets-en, c'est pas de l'onguent!

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

TelePlay

Quote from: poplar1 on March 18, 2023, 04:01:45 PMMounts on the baseplate from inside . . .

That makes sense. As for the dial, it must have shipped on the metal flange that would simply mount on to the dial attachment posts. Or did the dial come stand alone and had to be mounted on the metal flange that would hold it in place?

And the 6U dial ordered from WE was a real #6 dial as shown in the attached image, not an all plastic dial Contempra said he has on his phone (hopefully he will post images of).

Given the network and ringer assembly on a "sled" and the ordered dial, that would say the "empty housing" included the dial attachment posts and the hook switch assembly attached to the metal base plate (with the rubber feet attached), right?


paul-f

Coquette sets processed through Western Electric for the Design Line would normally be marked with the WE model number: 882 B200, and/or WE Stickers.

http://www.paul-f.com/weDesignLine.html#Coquette
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

TelePlay

Quote from: paul-f on March 18, 2023, 05:10:15 PMCoquette sets processed through Western Electric for the Design Line would normally be marked with the WE model number: 882 B200, and/or WE Stickers.

So, then what is a "Coquette" style phone that has a New York Telco number on the base instead of a WE sticker and Model Number



but still has the WE network and ringer "sled" and a genuine WE #6 dial?

paul-f

#11
Quote from: TelePlay on March 18, 2023, 05:29:28 PMSo, then what is a "Coquette" style phone that has a New York Telco number on the base instead of a WE sticker and Model Number
but still has the WE network and ringer "sled" and a genuine WE #6 dial?
My guess is that it was produced based on standards that were in place before the Design Line was formalized, so is not strictly speaking a Design Line set.

The Bell System had procedures for modifying customer-owned phones long before the Design Line.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19040.0

http://www.paul-f.com/we581.html
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.

TelePlay

Quote from: paul-f on March 18, 2023, 05:37:33 PMMy guess is that it was produced based on standards that were in place before the Design Line was formalized, so is not strictly speaking a Design Line set.

When was the Design Line launched?

Images I uploaded above and here have these dates: 3-73 dial; 1-74 ringer; 1-74 581A "sled".

It is not stamped 882 anywhere, so what, predated the Design Line launch?



TelePlay

Attached is the BSP (dated 1978) for this phone from the TCI Library.

Seems the Design Line phone could be or was shipped from the factory as a complete 882 telephone, worked out of box.

The attached image is from that BSP, and it is confusing as to what is bought and what is owned.


paul-f

Quote from: TelePlay on March 18, 2023, 06:01:00 PMWhen was the Design Line launched?

... so what, predated the Design Line launch?
According to AT&T's Events in Telecommunication History, the Design Line was announced in March 1974, featuring the Exeter, Accent, Celebrity, Elite, and Stowaway sets.

It also mentioned that the Phone Center Store trial started in July 1970. I suspect the 88x models that were later considered part of the Design Line were available before 1974 and used in the trials. (Looking for confirmation.)

As noted in the BSP quote above, one goal of the Design Line was to have complete phones available for sale. 

This eliminated the need for a customer to purchase a housing and schedule a service call to manually install the internal components (as was the norm before the Design Line).

Previous arrangements with housing suppliers to have their housings "certified" to work with the F-56659, F-56660 and 581A components were intended to give installers advance notice that the components would work with the customer's housing before an installation visit was scheduled -- eliminating wasted service calls. If the customer could not quote the compliance wording on the bottom of the set, they were instructed to send the set to a Service Center to be modified.

History on this is outlined in the links from previous posts. More can be found in the BSPs, with some extracts below.

The housing certifications were not cancelled when the Design Line sets came out. Companies like U.S. Telephone, DecoTel/ATC and Mutual Telephone of America continued to sell housings directly to customers for years.
Visit: paul-f.com         WE  500  Design_Line

.