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French candlesticks

Started by wurzel1765, November 11, 2020, 06:49:07 AM

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wurzel1765

Here are my French Candlestick phones   :)


countryman

Nice indeed, and not a single one is like the other...
Is there any chance to narrow down the period of time when these were produced? Especially the dial versions?

wurzel1765

sorry I don't know enough about them to truly date them, but I would guess between 1900-1930

Jack Ryan

Quote from: countryman on November 11, 2020, 12:10:52 PM
Nice indeed, and not a single one is like the other...
Is there any chance to narrow down the period of time when these were produced? Especially the dial versions?

The second from the left is a Relay Automatic office telephone and may have been connected to a PAX rather than the public exchange. I think ATEA distributed Relay Automatic around 1920. Sorry I'm working and can't easily check.

The Thomson Houston telephones at the other end might be mid teens to mid 20s - where are those catalogues?

The one at the right hand end is tall - or is the second to last short? I don't remember seeing that difference before - even when there is a bell fitted.

Jack

countryman

I'm asking because I still try to figure out whether they were always made with the "mercedes" dial, or possibly late models had what I call "the French standard dial" from factory.
My Thomson-Houston column phone is the short version like the second from right in wurzel's pic, but with a "standard" dial. The clear fingerwheel is younger than the phone, but might the actual dial body be original?




Jack Ryan

Quote from: countryman on November 12, 2020, 03:14:09 AM
I'm asking because I still try to figure out whether they were always made with the "mercedes" dial, or possibly late models had what I call "the French standard dial" from factory.
My Thomson-Houston column phone is the short version like the second from right in wurzel's pic, but with a "standard" dial. The clear finger-wheel is younger than the phone, but might the actual dial body be original?

Given the timelines, those phones were mostly supplied with Mercedes dials but the last of them probably used the same dial as the PTT 24. After c1924, the pedestal telephones were not supplied for use on the public network as the PTT had standardised on the PTT 24.

Many French telephones do not have original dials, either because the original dial failed or because the telephone did not have one to begin with. I think Most of the PTT 24s have the dial you show and that looks like a 1950s dial.

Jack

FABphones

#7
Quote from: countryman on November 12, 2020, 03:14:09 AM
...The clear fingerwheel is younger than the phone, but might the actual dial body be original?

The clear finger wheel is correct for that dial. They belong together. In all likelihood that dial would have been put on that phone at a much later date, and would not have been the first dial it had.

In addition, there were two other main versions of dial that I know of (ie, have), in between the Mercedes dial and the one you have there. Unfortunately, I do not have shelves of reference books or catalogues to refer to (as yet), merely the dials (and a lot of them so I can span the years of manufacture fairly well), so I cannot attach documentation here (thankfully when I eventually am able to source them my French is good enough to be able to read them).

The model of dial on your phone spanned quite a few years. As a simple guide, the earlier version had no plastic to rear, also, if you check the number plate, metal indicates an earlier version, if it is plastic it is a later version.

These dials are bountiful in comparison to the earlier versions, and that is why they are commonplace replacements. I literally have boxes of them. Most are dated on the reverse, which helps enormously when I try to date a dials 'little changes' in manufacture a little more closely.

This is merely my opinion from my experience.

—-

I'll take this opportunity once again the thank the two members on here who took the time to actually detail how to strip down, clean, rebuild and calibrate dials. I learnt from it all enormously.

:)


A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Jack Ryan

Quote from: FABphones on November 12, 2020, 05:29:09 AM
In addition, there were two other main versions of dial that I know of (ie, have), in between the Mercedes dial and the one you have there.

I don't suppose you can photograph them? I went looking for some earlier but they seem to be buried too far back in storage. Thanks.

The French PTT standardised their dial in 1927 and that was, I think, the earliest of their Type 24 series dials. Before that, they used the Mercedes dial and, I think, also a BTMC 7000 series dial.

Regards
Jack



FABphones

Quote from: Jack Ryan on November 12, 2020, 07:12:19 AM
I don't suppose you can photograph them?...

I definitely can, but you will need to bump this topic in a few weeks time as a reminder as I am not at home at the moment.

A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************

Jack Ryan

Quote from: FABphones on November 12, 2020, 07:28:38 AM
I definitely can, but you will need to bump this topic in a few weeks time as a reminder as I am not at home at the moment.

OK, thanks very much.

Jack

countryman

#11
Quote from: FABphones on November 12, 2020, 05:29:09 AM
The clear finger wheel is correct for that dial. They belong together. In all likelihood that dial would have been put on that phone at a much later date, and would not have been the first dial it had.

That's good to know. I have a PTT 24 phone which has a similarly designed dial but with plastic parts. It has a metal fingerwheel with that interesting AE-style dial card holding mechanism. It interchanges with the clear fingerwheel of the column phone 1:1.
Often enough parts got mixed up over the looong time these phones exist in use, for tinkering and decoration.

Obviously the dial on the column phone was swapped in a professional shop, it's soldered perfectly to what I think are the old cloth wires original to the phone. When the clear plastic appeared, vinyl wires were the norm. I found those in the PTT 24 for the dial, while the rest is cloth, too.

Thanks for the info, it's really appreciated.