Early Western Electric speaking tube transmitter on Ebay

[Witty]

I was wondering if anyone else is watching this on Ebay. So far there's about 49 watchers.
This appears to be the early 1892 transmitter found on WE speaking tubes in the early 1890s. It is also found on the 20-K stick I believe.
I have bought from this seller before, and have met him in person. Very nice man. He is selling this transmitter for a lady friend who's husband died some years back, who was a longtime collector and did his own plating.
White lettering was original to many of these at the time. It appears the tag might have been replaced for some reason, since the original faces had the *————-* tag on them. The seller isn't sure why it was different on this one but probably explains why it was not plated over.
Just thought I would share this and interested in seeing what it goes for. There are several collectors that have the early speaking tube units.
Anyone with more information about these would be welcome. It's always a continued learning experience for me.

Ken

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174746219939



< edit 05-02-21: listing screenshots added >

[Babybearjs]

love the chrome! nice and shiny!

[Witty]

FAB,
Thanks for adding the screenshot and photos.
I think the tag photo shows it was swapped out based on the pin extrusions.
The small side screws look new so it could be inserted into a back cup if desired, or removed if the transmitter is to be placed into a round opening into a box unit.
I have 2 early Autophone wall units with similar type transmitters. They are inserted into a round opening in the wood face so the recessed back part of the transmitter inserts into it, laying flat against the wood, and held in place by 2 back screws. They also have the 4 side screw openings for use in a cup configuration if desired.
Pretty clever.

[Witty]

The final bid came in at $433.99. I don't know how to post a screenshot or I would. There was 14 bidders.
The final bid doesn't surprise me considering the rarity of these.
It is very possible the white lettering could be original, considering you can renickel over coverings that act as a masking to the nickel electro plate process. I don't know  what the white lettering martial was made of.
I do nickel electroplating and masking is very useful to prevent plating in certain areas as long as you use masking material that doesn't react to the liquid compound. It only takes about 30 secs dipping for platting.
Wish I had an old speaking tube box to add this to, I would have bid on it.

Ken

[Jack Ryan]

I don't see a lot of this sort of equipment so I can't claim any sort of expertise. However, If I saw this I would have a strong suspicion that it was a reproduction because:

• The bridge is mounted low unlike any other WE transmitters I have seen.
• The face plate looks like it encloses the rectangular bars that the bridge normally sits on - is it pressed?
• The text on the face plate looks like it has been stamped - it is uneven and the surrounding surface is also uneven.
• The text on the face plate is in a different location compared to similar transmitters (see link)
• A low budget tag is fastened to the face.

Perhaps it's just me.

Jack

Link: http://oldtelephones.com/telephones/best-of-the-rest/phone/1903-western-electric-company-no-20-k-speaking-tube-desk-telephone/

[HarrySmith]

I had the same thoughts. The tag definitely does not belong.

[Desert Phone Guy]

This is a photo of one that I have.... All three that I own are made this way... different from the ebay auction transmitter.

[Witty]

Phone Guy,
Thanks for the photo and information. If I may ask, what are the units your 3 are attached to? Are the inside guts the same?
Also, if yours were clean nickel plated and polished up like new did you think they are worth that much?
I have no idea, but just trying to figure why several bidders were willing to pay that much for one that's so different from what we are finding. The layout of the inside lettering is certainly different along with the wording. The tag is obviously different and probably replaced.
When I contacted the Ebay seller, whom I've met before and lives about 60 miles South of me, he told me he was selling it for a friend, but said he knew nothing about it other than it was an older WE transmitter.
He's also a long time collector and member of ATCA.
Makes me wish I could find out what those bidders were thinking about it.
So far I can't find one with the exact same design. Could it be a pre production test piece?
The possibility of a reproduction sounds very plausible, but you would think we would see many more, since the cost of equipment and tooling would then make it worth it.
Just thinking out loud here.....
So far It's a mystery.
Would love to hear from anyone else that can add anything to the question.

[Jack Ryan]

I have no idea, but just trying to figure why several bidders were willing to pay that much for one that's so different from what we are finding. The layout of the inside lettering is certainly different along with the wording. The tag is obviously different and probably replaced.

Can't see how many bidders there are but you are only assuming they know what they are bidding on. Lots of bids of small increments usually says something.

When I contacted the Ebay seller, whom I've met before and lives about 60 miles South of me, he told me he was selling it for a friend, but said he knew nothing about it other than it was an older WE transmitter.

He probably should have stopped at "knew nothing about it" as I would guess that "it was an older WE transmitter" was a guess.

He's also a long time collector and member of ATCA.

I do not wish to make comments about this fellow in particular but neither being a long time collector nor being a member of a club means that one is an expert. I think quite a few long time club members and long time collectors have bought reproduction phones without realising it. The SC Coffee Grinder is one example that comes to mind.

Makes me wish I could find out what those bidders were thinking about it.
So far I can't find one with the exact same design. Could it be a pre production test piece?

Based on my comments in a previous post I think it is a reproduction. Best to use Occam's Razor - it is not a very valuable and highly desirable pre-production prototype of which only one is known to exist - it is a reproduction.

The possibility of a reproduction sounds very plausible, but you would think we would see many more, since the cost of equipment and tooling would then make it worth it.

I think the fact that someone didn't go to the expense of tooling up is the reason that it is so obviously different from an original.

So far It's a mystery.

No, it's a reproduction.


As I noted in my original post, I am not an expert in this area so I may be wrong. I would accept that but I would be surprised.

Jack

[Witty]

Whoa!!!
Did I say something wrong here?
Jack, do you critique everyone's posts like this?
I feel your response is very rude, disrespectful and a little insulting.

[Jack Ryan]

Whoa!!!
Did I say something wrong here?
Jack, do you critique everyone's posts like this?
I feel your response is very rude, disrespectful and a little insulting.

It wasn't meant to be rude, disrespectful or insulting. It wasn't even directed at you personally.

Most of the comments refer to sellers in general who infer things with no evidence.

The other comments, particularly regarding Occam's Razor, apply to no one in particular. I made the comment because often anything that is different becomes a prototype when the simplest explanation is a reproduction or decorator conversion - chrome 20ALs and left handed candlesticks come to mind.

Don't be offended as no offence was intended. I forget that not everyone enjoys a robust (but respectful) discussion. My apologies.

Jack

[FABphones]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, I like it when anomaly's are pointed out. Having never come across this transmitter they are things that formerly I wouldn't have known to look for, and knowledge I can apply elsewhere.

Thanks for posting. 

If the auction winner is a member here, perhaps they will post a reply and let us know what attracted them to this item.

Auction end and final minutes of bidding history screenshots below:
24 Bids.
14 Bidders.

[FABphones]

To help make comparison easier, side-by-side image of the two transmitters below (click on image to expand).