Classic Rotary Phones Forum

Telephone Switching => General Switching Discussions => Topic started by: ESalter on January 23, 2011, 09:30:57 PM

Title: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: ESalter on January 23, 2011, 09:30:57 PM
I thought I'd post a couple pictures to see if very many of you out there liked switching.  I haven't seen much on the forum about switching before.  I figured some of you out there have to be interested.

These are all old pictures I dug up.  If anyone wants close-ups of anything in-particular or has any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

The first one is a WE 755A Crossbar PBX.  It has 4 outgoing trunks and 20 stations.  The stations are numbered 20-39.  It can have 3 communication paths at one time.  This switch is particularly neat to watch operate as it "stores" the first number you dial.  If anyone is interested, I can take a video of it operating. 

On the right of the photo is a demo SxS switch my dad and I built a while back.  It has one linefinder, two selectors and a connector.  It has 4 digit station numbers and of course "dial 9 for an outside line" which is hooked to the crossbar.  On the back wall there's an ivory painted WE 1A2 shoebox.  The black box is a WE 820D Merlin system.

The other two are of the big Strowger switch.  My dad and I put it together from AE central office pieces.  The framing was actually left in the basement of our building.  The building we are in is an old telephone office.  It used to house a Stromberg Carlson X-Y system.  When the telco moved out, they just tossed a bunch of the racks and such in the basement.  We sandblasted and repainted some of that and used it to mount our SxS equipment to.

The bottom is the linefinders, 20 switches, 10 sets of line and cutoff relays to run them(each L&CO enclosure has 2 sets of relays).  The upper two rows of switches on the left(above the linefinder switches) are selectors and the two on the right are connectors. 

For those that don't know, when you take a phone off hook, a linefinder automatically zips up and around to "find your line" and give you dialtone.  A selector steps up to the level of the first number you dial and steps around automatically to connect you to another selector(depending on how many digits the number is).  A connector steps up the number you dial and around the number you dial, thus connecting you to the line you're calling.  This system uses 3 digit numbers, so when I pick up the phone a linefinder goes up and around to give me dialtone.  I want to call station 501.  I dial a 5.  A selector steps up to the 5th level, then zips around to connect me to a vacant connector.  I dial a 0, the connector steps up to the 0(10th) level.  I dial a 1 and the connector steps over 1 and rings that station.  I apologize if that's difficult to understand, it's rather hard to explain without being able to explain as it's actually working.

The most significant part of that project so far was the linefinder shelf.  The bank of 20 switches and all of the line and cutoff relays that go along with them are on one big frame.  The original frame we had was cut in half between the switches and the relays, so all the wiring between them would have to be spliced.  Luckily, we located a complete linefinder bay.  The switches can come off to make the whole works lighter, but the L&CO relays don't.  My uncle had to help us get that in the back door of our building with a forklift!  There's a picture of it sitting on the floor when we got it and another of us hoisting it up.

Well, that's all for now.  I'll work on videos the next time I get the chance.

---Eric
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on January 23, 2011, 11:34:02 PM
Hi Eric:

Yes there is at least one "wanna Be" switcher here. I removed and junked enough stuff (working for the Telco here) to fill warehouses and now I wish I had kept some of it.

Thanks for posting your pictures and telling their story. Is all of your switch gear at the office building or is some at home? Is the big switch AE or WECo?

I do have a single shelf of AE SxS switches wired into a demo unit that can process a 7 digit call. It was used in our training centre until they no longer had a need for it and then I got lucky as an installer that knew I was into this sort of thing was asked to get rid of it. It has been following me for about 25 years now.

I also have a dream to get a 200 line CDO (200 line SxS trailer from a small town) brought to Vancouver and restored to working condition. I had heard rumours of its existence and finally found it and took pictures in September 2009. Here's a link to the pictures on my Photobucket site.

http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b273/AE_Collector/Manning%20Park%20SxS%20CO/

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on January 24, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
Here's a PBX thread from early 2010 that gets away from the Panasonic 616 theme and onto some "Real PABX's"! So there is at least some switching interest. Maybe we need a switching category??

I posted some pictures of a "Real PABX" in this thread.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2124.0

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: ESalter on January 24, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
WOW!  I completely missed the pictures of that Hitachi Crossbar, that thing is cool!  Our big switch is AE.  The switch racks look incredibly similar to the pictures of the equipment in that trailer(which you better get your hands on!)  All of our stuff is at the old phone building, the house isn't quite big enough.  My dad put a comdial system in our house(because it runs on just 2 pairs), but I didn't like it.  At some point when I was in high school I put a Merlin 410 in my bedroom because I wanted to use my burgandy Merlin phone, and sometime later I added a red Trimline.

My dad used to work for a 2-way radio/telephone/alarm company.  He remembers in the late 80s or early 90s they removed a WE crossbar PBX from a local hotel.  He's always said it was a 770.  From the way he's described it, I think it was a 756.  All of it went into the dumpster except for the power supply which is now running our small SxS demo switch.  Both of us wish we could go back in time and slap him for not taking it!  It's sad how little of that equipment survived, it's such neat technology.

---Eric
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: JorgeAmely on January 24, 2011, 11:28:52 AM
Eric:
When I was younger, I was always amazed as to how many things a phone and Central Office could do with only a couple of wires. It wasn't until recently that I began to play with phones that I realized all that happens behind the scenes to make a call go from one phone to another.

Keep the articles coming. Even though modern electronics have reduced the capabilities of relays down to microscopic transistor based switches, nothing compares to the sounds and sights of old switching equipment.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on January 24, 2011, 11:50:40 AM
If it wasn't such an ordeal to move almost every sort of electro mechanical telephone switch I think there WOULD be a lot more of them in basements and garages.

I have some 1A key equipment as well as some AE 10A1 and 10A2 (AE's equivilent to WECo 1A1 and 1A2). I recently rescued an Ericsson 636 PAX system (30 line cross bar Intercom) and it was pretty much all that I could handle on my own.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15797.0

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Dave F on January 24, 2011, 12:37:58 PM
Eric,

Very, VERY cool!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Jim Stettler on January 24, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
Eric,
I am not a switcher, However, I am interested in switches and switchboards. I do have own some switch stuff.


Last May  I asked Fred Haynes about the feasability of building me a demo step switch. I thought it sounded like a neat toy.

Fred decided it sounded like a fun project.
He hopes to have it compleated for the KS show this Spring.

I also have a step switch LAmp. I had it displayed at the Lyon's NE show.
Jim

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: rp2813 on January 25, 2011, 12:00:18 AM
Eric, that is some great stuff.

I would really like to see a video when you get time to post one.

I never worked in the frames but had to know basic theory for some of the positions I held with Pacific Bell/SBC/AT&T.  I had hoped to get inside the last crossbar CO before it was upgraded to 5E, but never managed to.   I understand that in a big CO, the crossbars could create quite a racket, which would have been fun to hear.

Does anybody know the type of switch that appears in "Dial M for Murder?"
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on January 25, 2011, 12:36:36 AM
Crossbar and Strowger offices could both be very noisy. We didn't use very much crossbar here in British Columbia but we did have 4A crossbar toll offices. I recall the one I worked at in 1977 being very noisy during weekday business hours. There always seemed to be circuits in the 4A being monitored over speakers playing the MF sounds of calls being forwarded towards their final destination.

I was working in a SxS office of around 30 thousand lines when a large cable was ripped down by a car accident. Due to the way CO's are graded and the fact that no more than 10% of the subscribers could initiate a call which would use all available line finders, the resulting shorts as the cable was ripped out caused virtually every linefinder in the office to attempt to find the lines that were calling for service. This caused a very noticible roar to go through the office on an already busy day.

I certainly do miss the sound of an office processing calls.

I don't know about "Dial M for Murder" but "Three Days of the Condor" has a scene in a working Crossbar Office. I think we discussed it on the forum previously.

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on January 25, 2011, 01:24:26 AM
Eric:

I have a demo SXS that I built.  It was quite educational.  I outfitted it with an electronic "old dial tone" generator, which also provides busy and reorder busy tones.  Still working on a ringback tone generator.

It only has one line finder, one selector and one connector, so.... only one talk path, even though I have 10 line/cutoff relays.

So, I can hook 10 phones to it, but only one conversation can take place at a time.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: GG on February 15, 2011, 09:43:51 AM


I lived in an area served by a Strowger CDO when I was a kid, and worked on Ericsson XB switches in college, so the sounds of those machines *really* pull some serious strings in me.  As John Barlow said back in the day, "cyberspace is where you are when you're on the phone," and it's really true that with any electromechanical switch, there is a clear and distinct sense of being in a "place", a discrete circuit path, something that has a physical existence to it rather than being packets in a "cloud."  (I will never forgive whoever came up with that "cloud" metaphor!)  When I compare that to what's happened to the network especially over the past ten years, it's downright painful.  These machines were robust, reliable, nearly atomic bomb proof, energy-efficient (a Strowger machine uses practically zero power when idle, which is most of the night hours when, conveniently, the sun isn't shining: so therefore easier to run on a photovoltaic system in a remote area), and could be repaired down to the component level.  And they did not lend themselves to broad-spectrum surveillance or to "robo-call" telemarketing spammers. 

So I'd love to have 50 - 100 lines of Strowger equipment in operation.  I do not have a place for it now, but will in a couple of years when I'm on my own land and can build out as needed.  In fact I'd like to open up the exchange to neighbors as a kind of "living history" project that has the practical consequence of being a backup to the (usually less reliable) mobile & VOIP services that people often have now.  There is also a sliver of a chance to buy out a small rural telco and put a Strowger switch back into the CO as a backup to the Nortel DMS, but that is going to require serious capital and cooperation to make it go.  I have some ideas in mind for the "regulatory strategy" that would be needed to make something like that fly.  Basically the Strowger machine would be a "living history" project that didn't connect to the outside world, only within the community.  A similar strategy could be used to put cordboards back in service. 

Re. Panasonic:   First time I ever saw a Panasonic PBX (the original 616) I was skeptical: Panasonic's great strength was audio & video, so what were they doing making PBXs?  But I played with it and found it was as capable as a Mitel SX-20 at about 1/3 the cost, so we started installing them.  And Panasonic kept ahead of the rest of the market with features that made them flexible & robust in ways that competing systems weren't, so we got further into it with them and I got certified. 

One of the things about Panasonic that is truly unique is that they take input from the grassroots and act on it.  There are four or five features going back to KXTD-1232 r4, through the present KXTDA/KXNCP PBXs and KXTVA voicemail system, that I specifically suggested or designed, that Panasonic adopted.  The most significant of which are the external call transfer features in the voicemail systems, that enable even small businesses with as few as three employees to have telecommuters or remote employees.  I could go into that in more detail if anyone's interested.   

I can provide Panasonic equipment for folks here if anyone's interested, but this isn't an advertisement (I'll post one in the classified section here one of these days:-)   One thing to keep in mind is: the older generation machines up through KXTD series, have strong ringing output that'll ring anything.  But the smallest of the current generation, KXTDA-50, will ring most normal phones e.g. 500s and equivalent, and modified GPO 706s etc., but isn't quite strong enough to ring some phones with low-impedance ringers (high REN).  For example I have a GPO Trimphone that doesn't quite ring on my TDA-50 system.   The reason for this is that over the years Panasonic has radically reduced the power consumption of these machines, to a small fraction of what it was 20 years ago: and one of the results of that change is less power for ringing analog ringers.  However the way to deal with that is to put a smaller capacitor in the ringer circuit, which makes the bells quieter but still works. 

More later; gotta' scoot for today...
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Sargeguy on February 15, 2011, 10:50:16 PM
This topic always brings back memories.  When I was a kid my Dad would visit his friend (my godfather) who worked 2nd shift at the CO fixing any problems with the switches.  He was the only employee there.  And he and my father would split a six pack while my godfather ignored the red blinking lights for an hour or two.  I had the run of the place for the most part.  I remember that it was very loud, except for the battery room..  I developed quite a collection of old wire, cracked buttsets, etc.  I remember that the popular items were wasp killer and the wooden slats with the foam covers that my Mom used to clean the blinds.  I believe they were designed to remove dusr from between switching equipment.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 18, 2011, 10:27:26 PM
Hi All;
I have the following Stepping units on Order (They are Paid for, Just have not arrived) and have found Documentation on 33013 and on 66414 on the TCI Library... But, I have NOT found Anything on the 65901... I hope to use these for the Start of my Own Stepping Switch.. I know its Just a beginning.. Any Help would be appreciated.. I have also posted on the TCI Forum...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 18, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
Hi All;
I gave the Wrong Numbers for what I am getting... Here are the correct ones !!!!!!
connector ED 31739 (Can't find info)
selector  ED 30976 (Can't find info)
Basic Selector ED 30200 ( Can find Info)
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 19, 2011, 11:54:30 AM
You might try Phil McCarter in Oregon.  He is best contacted by phone, and he looks at this forum from time to time.  He has a lot of SXS information.  He also sells a lot of stepper switches on e-bay under the name cougarvalleyhwt



I can give you his land line number or his C*Net number by private message.

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: thetammy0r on February 21, 2011, 03:10:54 PM
I'm Phil McCarters webmaster.  He wanted me to share the link to the gallery of his central office at his house.

http://www.strowgercentraloffice.com/gallery2/ (http://www.strowgercentraloffice.com/gallery2/)


Phil also has a dvd available that he discusses the different types of switching in detail.
Should you be intrested in the dvd you can purchase it here:

http://stores.ebay.com/cougarvalleyphonesandmore (http://stores.ebay.com/cougarvalleyphonesandmore)
--Tammy
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on February 22, 2011, 06:29:10 AM
I got interested in switching a few years ago, when I wanted to make a demo Strowger switch for the museum I started looking for selectors, connectors and line finders, relays, Lorain ring generator, etc., and wound up with this as a result...

The line finders were in poor shape - they were taken from an NB Co years ago in a dump truck, and dumped in a field for a number of years. The relays were severely bent, as was the shaft on one.

SO far, I have been unable to get those beaten up linefinders working correctly. One will step up to the correct level, but not rotate as it should.

However, I do have it working using a butt set on the selectors, and dialing and ringing either of two phones connected. The phones ring with 3 numbers, one absorbed in the selector, getting their final digit in the connector.

Someday I must try to find at least a couple of good linefinders and I can finish the job!

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 22, 2011, 08:35:30 AM
Hi All;
Dave, If you go to the TCI forum, (I am not sure of its Correct name) and let People there know what the Brand and What number of the LineFinder you have, I am Sure that someone has another one or the Parts that you would need to make the one you have, work right... And then You would have a working Step System, to Go along with your PayPhones...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 22, 2011, 08:40:40 AM
Hi All;
I should be getting this week and next week, (I hope) most of the Parts for my Step System.. And then the real Work begins, putting it all together and getting it to work with my Phones..
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on February 22, 2011, 08:57:16 AM
Hi All;
Dave, If you go to the TCI forum, (I am not sure of its Correct name) and let People there know what the Brand and What number of the LineFinder you have, I am Sure that someone has another one or the Parts that you would need to make the one you have, work right... And then You would have a working Step System, to Go along with your PayPhones...
THANK YOU Marty

Hi Marty:

Been there, done that. linefinders are relatively scarce, and there isn't an unlimited source of money. Being here in eastern Canada, shipping if extremely expensive, costing $50 to $100 per unit.

More than that, it is a project I got away from, and just haven't gotten back to. I can do a good demonstration of step switching, using the butt set at the selectors - everything but the linefinders work very well. What I need to do is set the finders up on my test stand and debug them - when I have time...
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 22, 2011, 10:56:30 AM
Dave:

Good to have you here.  I have been to your website many times in the last few years, but I am on the other side of the continent, and haven't had the ability to come see you in person, although I know of many out here on the west coast who have.

Dave, and Marty, we are having our northwest regional phone show in Seattle on May 14th, and we will be going through the Seattle Telecommunications museum after the show, if any are interested.  Come to think of it, I need to get the show posted on our calendar here in the forum.

-Bill
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 23, 2011, 08:44:00 AM
Hi All;
I have received the first of my Stepper System parts, Some Pictures, I am going to Look at the DVD from Phil.. But, Phil has done a Great Job of Both Packing and getting what I have asked for... THANKS Phil..
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 23, 2011, 06:09:30 PM
Hi All;
I have watched Phil's DVD and it is good and Phil, is in the process of making a second Version, Don't know when it will be out... I am in the process of taking the Wires off of the Banks, Lots of Fun !!!!
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 23, 2011, 06:20:23 PM
I am in the process of taking the Wires off of the Banks, Lots of Fun !!!!
THANK YOU Marty

Been there, done that.  It is a lot of work.  You can take the banks off the switch frames to aid in the desoldering, but by all means, don't try to disassemble tha banks themselves.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 23, 2011, 06:32:27 PM
HI All;
I have Already done that and  am in the Process of doing my first Bank, it is alot easier to desoler then when they are apart and also to trade out Bad or broken Insolator pieces... Since the Ones by the ends of the Bank are Broken for the most part.. and to get a Good Bank I have to use two for parts to get one good one...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on February 23, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
HI All;
I have Already done that and  am in the Process of doing my first Bank, it is alot easier to desoler then when they are apart and also to trade out Bad or broken Insolator pieces... Since the Ones by the ends of the Bank are Broken for the most part.. and to get a Good Bank I have to use two for parts to get one good one...
THANK YOU Marty

Lots of luck, Marty:

Yes, I have to agree - it is much easier to unsolder with it disassembled, but not easy to put them back together. Just make sure you keep track with the wafer/spacers and keep everything together. I find if you have to disassemble them, that when putting them back together, start by assembling the bank on the two outer bank bolts, tighten lightly before inserting the rest. Finally,  tighten all. I had to take apart some of mine which had broken sections, too.
Not fun!

What are you getting for linefinders and relays?

Below photo of mine before wiring up the linefinder and connector banks, etc. in 2006.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 23, 2011, 07:01:33 PM
Hi All;
I am getting a 100 point LineFinder and the Relays from another Source, So I just Paid for them Today and So I won't see them for Another week or there abouts.. Then I have to see what else I may need, As I am so new to this phone/switcher thing, I have alot to learn...
I have not been able to get my stepper to step by pushing on the appropriate relay, Does anyone know If I have to have power applied to make them step.. I have a power supply, and I can make then go up and of course down... Also Thank You All for the Advice.. I am sure I will need more as time and equipment arrive... And Yes, I get Switchers Quarterly and have Downloaded ALL of the Back issues... as well as the appropriate SD's and CD's for the Equipment I have..
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on February 23, 2011, 07:58:11 PM
Regarding not stepping:

Did you remove the shipping keeper from the top of the shaft?
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on February 23, 2011, 09:05:43 PM
Hi All;
Bill, I don't know if mine had this, it was tied in place using Telephone wire, which I removed.. and since putting it away this morning, I re-got it out this afternoon, and it did step, but only once , once it got all the way around, I released it and now it won't step again... I might not be releasing it correctly or I don't know what else to press to make it , to be able to step, something is binding it -- being able to step.. Most likely OPERATOR Error !!! THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Weco355aman on February 24, 2011, 12:55:31 AM
The link that Tammy provided is to a web site that is under construction and will be completed soon. Also photo's of phones will be added. I have
about 500= phones. only about 200 are out of there boxes.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on March 02, 2011, 06:11:18 PM
Hi All;
Here are some photos of what I have of my demo switcher.. Nothing has been wired I have to take off all the loose wires and clean the lugs... Then I can start wiring, even though thru impatience I may try something out with Jumpers.   So, NOW the FUN really begins...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on March 02, 2011, 08:18:34 PM
That's a nice rack.  Did you build it?

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on March 02, 2011, 09:10:17 PM
Hi All;
Yes, Bill, I built the frame last Saturaday, and today I put all the parts in place and bolted them in.. I have also put the Power Supply in place above the light and fuse module... I now am in the process of unwireing the Relays along the top and the Switch jacks.. I had the metal laying around and the screws, and so it was alot cheaper than buying a ready made frame... besides what it would cost to ship said frame.. and I know that its angles are not right, but it holds the units.. So, I am not complaining...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on March 02, 2011, 10:14:50 PM
Very ingenious way to hang the switches on the angle bar Marty. You are off to a good start.

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on March 02, 2011, 10:30:33 PM
Hi All;
Terry, Thank You, I have not seen a close up of how it is really done, I can imagine, but, not completely sure.. So, I looked at what it had and it had an angle cut, So I found what would be a tight fit.. and made it from there... I used what I had...
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Weco355aman on March 05, 2011, 12:26:10 AM
Hi Marty.
Looks good the way you have this layed out. Keep us updated.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on April 30, 2011, 06:06:06 PM
Hi All;
Here are some more pictures, I have had to make some major changes.. But, it is for the better.. I also got a long gift from Phil, after ordering some phones... THANK YOU Phil... See attached photos..
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: marty on April 30, 2011, 06:12:38 PM
Hi All;
More Pictured.
THANK YOU Marty
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Phonesrfun on April 30, 2011, 07:40:59 PM
Marty:

I can see you have been very busy.  It takes a lot of time and work to put one of those together!

Keep us posted. 

PS: Phil McCarter is a great guy.

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Stephen Furley on July 27, 2011, 12:27:09 PM
This is the small Siemens which I wrote about in the 'Interesting find at work' thread.  I hadn't seen this thread then, but this would have been a better place to have put it.

The upper selectors are linefinders, the lower ones are connectors; it was used with two-digit numbers.  Supplied new in about 1957-58, out of use by about 1970 and not touched since then.  Nobody even knew it was there until we had to remove it at very short notice recently for some contractors to make a large hole in a wall to bring in a new electrical supply.

This picture is at 'Internal Fire', the Museum of Power in Wales where we sent it to.  It doesn't require access to the rear of the cabinet, which can be bolted to the wall.  There is a heavy metal plate which covers the bottom row of selectors which is hinged at the bottom and when it is let down has a pair of rails on which the 'works' can be pulled out of the cabinet, rather like the lens standard on an old folding camera.  The ringing machine can just be seen on the wall to the left.

This picture belongs to the Museum.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Babybearjs on September 22, 2011, 11:55:47 PM
Phil!!! What a Hobby! must keep you plenty busy and out of trouble! Great pictures! the outdoor pics are dark though! If my sister had only left me alone! anyway.... great work dude!   John
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Weco355aman on February 06, 2012, 12:06:17 AM
Hi, I have added new photos and Added Phone Display room #2.
Will be updating site over the next three months. This link is the backdoor to the site. I plan on launching site by April of this year.
http://www.strowgercentraloffice.com/gallery2/
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on March 03, 2012, 10:51:32 AM
What have i got here?  It is a PBX anno 1928 some parts missing, and I haven't a clue on at this level.
Magneto exchanges OK, but not this modern stuff ;D

Please tell me ???

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: Weco355aman on March 03, 2012, 02:41:13 PM
From what i can tel from the photos the items that you think are missing were not needed for that customers configuration. I'm
a us switching collector. You might send out a request on the TCI listserv with the photo and a request for information. I'd say from the looks of this it is worth the time to locate info. I don't see any cut wires. The wires that are tied off was for other features or capacity.
Phil
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on March 08, 2012, 03:31:48 PM
 ;D That's the best tip!!!!

I did so, and Steph helped me a lot, I think it will be working soon!
Its working on the first small tests. :D

Thank you!

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on March 08, 2012, 10:08:41 PM
So what is it d_s_k?
What manufacturer and does it have a model number?
PABX or just a PAX? (telephone switch or just an intercom)

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on March 09, 2012, 04:53:57 AM
It looks like a closed system PAX ?
It uses ordinary telephones, and is made by Elektrisk Bureau (Oslo, Norway) I guess 1928, even when the diagram in cabinet is dated 1948.
The sign on the wooden cabinet says:
11CA  1-28
SKJ. U. 2
LP. No. 17575

This makes me guessing on 1928.
The building was from 1924, the cabinet was made in pine, painted as aluminum.
The design of the interior, and the use of an mechanical relay to make ringing current, dial and busy signal.
A subjective wish of having as old as possible equipment ;D

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on March 11, 2012, 12:17:39 PM
Some progress now.
I have tried to make a recording of how it sounds when dialing. Dial tone, and ring tone, or dial tone and busy.

Try the links under.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on March 18, 2012, 04:41:45 AM
Last update:
Still not sure about dating, and the function of the little toggle switch.
The PAX has 19 lines, and may handle ONE conversation at the time. :D
I have temporarily powered it by 2 car batteries.

I don't know how to share it with you, its not made ready for connecting to internet  :D
I have a PAP2000 adapter, but don't know how I could connect it to a PAX like this.  The dial tone interupts my tone to pulse adapter too.  >:(

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on March 31, 2012, 04:48:36 AM
Another Switching thread:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=6679.msg77040#msg77040

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on April 08, 2012, 11:59:51 AM
Hi All:

I built a demo unit for the museum five years ao using North American Strowger switches.

Now, PEI got its first automatic switch in 1950. It was a UK Strowger made by ATM. I searched for years looking for any remaining parts from it to no avail.

A week ago, I got an email, then a phone call from one of the fellows who did the cut-over from it to DMS-100 in 1988. He had saved 5 switches when the rest of the exchange was scrapped.

These include:

2 Brand new first selectors (linefinders) from the exchanges spares.

2 second selectors

1 quite unusual final selector designed for ten party lines. It has a uniselector in it in addition to the normal UK connector to send the proper ring code to the correct line. This particular connector was used on the heavily loaded Miscouche lines.

So, this past week, I have been trying to locate the parts I will need to build these into a historically significant demo unit - using actual switches from the exchange.

I have located banks, bank hangers for the UK switches, coming from Ireland; also wipers (points), shelf jacks (part of the bank hanger in UK switches), a strip of l/co relays, Tellabs ring generator, interrupter,  fuse and alarm panel, and a 48 volt 7 amp power supply. Today I ordered a 44 inch high rack mount a lf, selector and the connector on (or in UK speak, a first, second and final selector).

I have done quite well, but still need two very important parts. As with North American switches, the linefinder (first selector) requires a Vertical commutator (Vertical Marking Bank in UK speak)   I still need one of these very badly as without one, I will not be able to get the linefinder going. I also require a ring tone generator, something like an old Lorain solid state unit or AE RT-1

If anyone has either item, please let me know!  

When I finish locating parts and have them here, I will have three of the fellows who maintained this exchange here t help build the demo. Nobody thought to keep the documentation for the switches, so I hope they remember details about their shelf jack wiring.

Another fun demo building project!

P.S. I just got a message from John Mulrane in Ireland that he is sending me the maintenance documents for all three types of switches I have.

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on April 19, 2012, 07:27:29 AM
Update on PEI Switch:

I thought it was probably time to do an update on the message above. Most items for the switch Demo have been found.

Thanks to a switcher in Ireland, I now have mounting brackets/banks for the above UK switches. The UK switches use an entirely different way of mounting as compared to North American Strowger. I also have a number of spare parts and manuals for the switches.

My rack arrived yesterday, 19"x44" aluminum. The bank mounts on a UK switch are supported by a piece of 3"X1" Channel - I have ordered it in Charlottetown, but as there was no stock, it is being made for me, and with luck, I should be able to pick it up today, and begin the placement of components on the rack.

L/CO relays, ring generator, 66 blocks, 48 Volt 7 amp power supply, fuse block, etc. are here.

The only parts not found now, are a dial tone generator, and a vertical marking bank (known as a vertical commutator here) for the line-finder.

So, now the fun part begins. Actual wiring will begin in May, and I will have three of those who originally worked on the Summerside switch prior to its being scrapped in 1988 helping. One of those gentlemen is going to be the fellow who actually rescued these switches from being scrapped back then.

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on April 23, 2012, 07:09:24 AM
Hi Folks:

Despite a truly nasty flu, I got a start at mounting switches on the UK Strowger demo:

http://www.islandregister.com/phones/demo2.html

During the project, through to its completion, I will keep updating the above page, so you can follow its progress. 

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on May 13, 2012, 05:38:04 AM
Hi Folks:

Despite a truly nasty flu, I got a start at mounting switches on the UK Strowger demo:

After the bout with the Flu, and my wife having to go to hospital for pneumonia brought about by the Flu, work on the VOIP equipment to put the museum on C*NET, etc., yesterday I finally got back to the switch...

Last night, I got around to shortening the banks for the selectors from 3 to 2 level. Should have been simple, right? Not as easy as it should have been. I had thought that they would have had the bank bolts with thread far enough down to do for either 2 or three banks. However, after disassembling one, I discovered the thread went only down to the top bank, so it wasn't a matter if removing one section, cutting off the extra bolt length and being done.

Add to that, the fact the original bolts were threaded in a weird British thread, so I couldn't simply extend the thread downwards using a tap and die set.  So, I ended up having to make my own new bank bolts using sections of 10-24 stainless rod which  had. But of course, I had no 10-32 nuts, so I needed to go for them.

In the end, the two banks needing shortening were back together, but after a lot more fussing than would have been necessary had the bolts been threaded down further.

Today, only one chore on the books, as I am taking my wife for Chinese, and that is to mount a power bar on the side of the switch  to plug the 48 volt power supply and ring generator, etc. into.

Its all progress, though. I am aiming for two weeks from now to have the retired switch-men from the old exchange to come down and help me wire it up.

Eventually is will be on C*NET, along with my North American Strowger demo, so people can play with the switches from any line on C*NET.

http://www.islandregister.com/phones/demo2.html

Photo showing the switch after today's work. The line-finder (or 1st selector as they call in in Britain), and the Connector (final selector) banks will remain 3 level. The linefinder, though British uses an American style bank and mount - all other switches use the UN banks and mount. The vertical commutator (vertical marking bank) has been found - only the dial tone generator is on the missing list now.,..

Early Sunday morning, a power bar was added to the left hand side of the rack, to take the AC lines from the power supply and to the ring generator, etc. Later, a bracket has to be fabricated to mount the right hand side of the fuse and alarm panel (located in the space between the power supply and connector bank). The panel is attached to the frame on the left hand side, it it currently floating on the right.

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on May 13, 2012, 08:24:20 PM
More work done this evening, and a new photo posted above. The bracket to mount the fuse and alarm panel has been made, and I wired up the fuses to the power supply.

I sent out the call tonight to arrange out wiring session with the three retired Island Tel people. We have now to find a good day for all of us, and we will work at it for that day getting everything wired up. It should be a lot easier wiring this one with the extra help, especially with people used to these British switches!

I plan a day with a BBQ, and refreshments for all - it should be fun. I have everything except for the dial tone generator - it an be added later on.

I will let people know when this happens, and bring it all up to date then!

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on July 21, 2012, 04:23:46 PM
I have solved my ring cadence problem. an electrolytic capacitor from 1948 did suddenly decide to stop working :-[ 

Some better pictures and films available too:
Old and 4 new pictures at :  http://photobucket.com/EBPAX (http://photobucket.com/EBPAX)
Films at:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9RsSessKw&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9RsSessKw&feature=plcp)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZH4_DnaVU&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsZH4_DnaVU&feature=plcp)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdGaCSdnLAg&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdGaCSdnLAg&feature=plcp)



dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on August 10, 2012, 04:05:11 AM
Now I have made, and tested out a working trunk for this PAX:

PAX to POTS trunk.

Circuit description:
Signalling:  (The pax line side is polarity sensitive.)

When calling the pax no e.g. 0 the ring detection relay R engages r1, the pots line goes off hook, and H closes h1 and the circuit remains off hook. (The transformer is a part of the circuit.) Simultaneously the r2 shorts the pax line when R and H are engaged. (This tells the PAX "the call is answered.") H's h2 releases R and r1 and r2 goes back to resting positions. H2 connects the transformers other winding to the PAX line and the POTS dial tone are clearly heard.  Since the PAX has a common supply for both extentions connected together, a pulse or offhook will be detected by the D (Dial) relay as a raised voltage, and the d1 contacts opens for as long as the pulse lasts. (Dial pulses are sent to pots line)
If the pulse becomes too long, the holding relay H releases the connection. (after about 0.5 second)
The zener diode prevents the D relay to engage as long as the telephone voice circuit keeps the voltage normal.

Pots side: H has low dc resistance, but high resistance to voice, the parallel capacitor has little resistance to voice signals. The 1:1 line transformer isolates the systems electrically, but lets the voice pass with moderate loss. 

PAX side: The  voice signals goes trough the capacitor and transformer with negliable loss. The diodes in series with the relay D blocks the voice signals.  Calling from the potsline are not detected in this cirsuit. Ringer(s) may be located in suitable locations, and answering may be done by dialling the trunk.  Transfer is not possible.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on August 15, 2012, 04:42:49 PM
More work done this evening, and a new photo posted above. The bracket to mount the fuse and alarm panel has been made, and I wired up the fuses to the power supply.
Dave
Work continues on the British Strowger Demo switch... Dial tone is hooked up, a line goes into each selector for testing, I have the -48 volt and earth (+ ground) connected, and today I connected the release earth to the selectors. This results in two fully functional selectors. When a number is dialed on the butt set, the two motion switch steps up that number of levels, and hunts to the right for an open selector along its horizontal access. As there isn't yet another selector connected it will then release.

It is working beautifully, and now the next step is to mount the banks, and connect the two switches together. Then, on to the connector...

Its coming together!

http://www.islandregister.com/phones/demo2.html

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on August 28, 2012, 07:59:57 AM
Dave and all others, I need some advice's.

I have now got my 1948 PAX working and connected to C*NET.

What would make this interesting to test, should I add on something more ?
68-24-76 was the original telephone number to that School were the pax was installed in 1948, the pax was not connected to the telphone network, but now you may at least hear the real ring and busy signals. The dialtone was the same as the busy, but continuously. At voip the dialtone is set by the callers equipment, in addition this dial tone disturbs DTMF-pulse conversion so it can not be sent for e.g. D.I.D.

At last: Thank you to Ian Jolly and Steph Kerman who has supported and guided me trough this project, they have lots of know how... 

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on August 31, 2012, 08:18:23 AM
A close view of the Selector may be seen under.

The selector is named Skancke selector.

2 Norwegian articles from 1929 and 2 pages from a 1938 catalogue is here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104509969/EB-Katalog-pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104509885/Landsbygdens-Automatisering-pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/104509671/Automatisering-Av-Telefonen-i-PDF

Everything in Norwegian :(

Please feel free to publish on other pages etc.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on August 31, 2012, 10:53:48 PM

Work continues on the British Strowger Demo switch...

A lot of progress made on my British Demo switch lately, perhaps the most so far. today.

The past couple of weeks have been spent getting the switches working. Having been in poor storage for many years, they required quite a bit of work.

Today, Earl Pauley was down and we put the banks on the two selectors and wired the banks, and now one can dial through the two selectors to the connector. I need to get another UK bank hanger for the connector before I put its bank on, due to the fact it is badly twisted, and the way it is, the bank won't line up correctly with the connector.

However, the connector is responding  to pulses passed through the two selectors as it should be.

See:
http://www.islandregister.com/phones/demo2.html
for more details.

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: dsk on September 19, 2012, 03:29:26 AM
Thank you so far, I have got some good hints, and now we got the numbers according to the right numbering plan.

The English voice is from C*NET archives, the Norwegian is generated by
http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html (http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-interactive-demo.html)
and modified in Audacity.

This has also made made it possible to generate a suitable dial center based on local and American traditions.
We have no tradition of using letters, but it happends to match MUseum 2476 I could'nt resist..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/labels%20and%20signs/C_NET__MUseum4_texthigh.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/dsk/Telephone/labels%20and%20signs/C_NET__47_HAKADAL.jpg)
Of course with a little C*NET twist, using a simplified logo.  The TCI logo is far too detailed to be easy to put in a small dial center.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: xhausted110 on November 25, 2012, 01:43:51 PM
i have some SXS parts. they are not wired yet. just waiting on a schematic from a friend.

(http://imageshack.us/a/img51/4825/dsc00768kc.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/dsc00768kc.jpg/)


(http://imageshack.us/a/img832/9339/dsc00767l.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/dsc00767l.jpg/)


(http://imageshack.us/a/img62/2662/dsc00766s.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/62/dsc00766s.jpg/)


(http://imageshack.us/a/img837/8527/dsc00765or.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/dsc00765or.jpg/)



(http://imageshack.us/a/img594/25/dsc00764ku.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/594/dsc00764ku.jpg/)
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on November 25, 2012, 02:24:03 PM
Looks like your Step by Step demo is well under way! First picture looks as though it might be a line finder but only has a 2 section bank rather than 3 sections? Should work for your Demo requrements anyway.

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: xhausted110 on November 26, 2012, 03:56:39 PM
yeah that is a linefinder with a 2 section bank.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: DavePEI on November 26, 2012, 04:19:30 PM
yeah that is a linefinder with a 2 section bank.
Not if you are referring to mine. It is a 3 level bank.

Dave
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar and SxS
Post by: AE_Collector on November 26, 2012, 09:32:17 PM
No I was referring to xhausted110's pictures above.

Terry
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: Fabius on April 15, 2014, 11:33:10 AM
Hello All,

Another switcher here. I retired from Verizon after a 32 year career almost all of it in the CO as a switchman and the last 13 years as a CO supervisor. I started with New York Telephone working in panel and cross bar 1 & 5 offices in Brooklyn NY. Worked in the mid 1970s in Lake Havasu City AZ in a Stromberg XY office with a North Electric 400D ticketer (reed core memory) and then moved on to Continental Telephone in Cazadero CA and their XY COs. Also worked in AE SXS. As CO supervisor with GTE in northwest Indiana saw the end of SXS switching in the mid 1990s. What I could of and should of saved back then makes me cry. All I have is a test stand and a few AE switches.

I would like to buy a SXS demo set up or an operating system in 1 or 2 racks. Thanks
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on October 05, 2014, 02:40:36 PM
Now my PAX are on C*NET. more on this thread:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z-Vcijxzbc0/VDGOHW6fx7I/AAAAAAAAKwE/1i_ORZ6CLBE/w456-h457-no/ULster7_1116.jpg) (http://goo.gl/GsH8rh)
http://goo.gl/GsH8rh (http://goo.gl/GsH8rh)


dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: Weco355aman on October 06, 2014, 09:11:52 PM
I've placed a few calls into your switch. There is a long time delay before your Mitel dials out.
When calling the 2 digit stations I do not receive any RBT. The single digit appears to work ok.
 
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on October 07, 2014, 01:25:41 AM
The RBT are depending on the ringer load of the line. 14 and 15 are usually connected.  The signal are 25HZ and harmonics of this generated by a vibrator.  The delay from the Mitel are approx 7 seconds from the last digit.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on March 29, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
(http://tinyurl.com/ovgletf)I got a problem here, when I am dialing 2 for line 2 it rings at 11. Should it be a capacitor, or something timing the delay between first and second digit?  http://tinyurl.com/ovgletf (http://tinyurl.com/ovgletf)

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: unbeldi on March 29, 2015, 10:46:33 AM
I got a problem here, when I am dialing 2 for line 2 it rings at 11. Should it be a capacitor, or something timing the delay between first and second digit?  http://tinyurl.com/ovgletf (http://tinyurl.com/ovgletf)

dsk

1 + 1 = 2 !

Seems acceptable.  LOL.


Seriously,   it seems the dial is either very much too slow, or the inter-digit delay logic is indeed broken.
Do you have an understanding yet of the diagram?  It is way too hard to decipher in this low resolution.

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on March 29, 2015, 12:25:14 PM
This is the documentation available, The dial are good, and I have tested several phones on this line, and this phone on other lines. It has to be the inter-digit timer. And I am not able to determine witch capacitor to look for.  Maybe better resolution here? http://tinyurl.com/o9gf5hx

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: unbeldi on March 29, 2015, 01:13:43 PM
This is the documentation available, The dial are good, and I have tested several phones on this line, and this phone on other lines. It has to be the inter-digit timer. And I am not able to determine witch capacitor to look for.  Maybe better resolution here? http://tinyurl.com/o9gf5hx

dsk
Looks a little better, but honestly, it's steep curve without access to the equipment to take some measurements.  It may not even be just a capacitor, it could be a failing relay.  The relay logic in switching systems can be daunting.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: MADhouseTelephone on April 16, 2018, 10:02:15 PM
MADhouse Telephone is an all Automatic Electric SxS switch with 200 line capacity. I have been working on it as the mood hits me for the last 20 years. It is approximately half operational. Through contacts with many other switchers over the years, I have added various features that few collectors have, such as coin trunks,  test trunks and service measuring equipment. I even use a GTE/Lenkurt T1 channel bank for POTS and C*NET access. Pic and videos can be found under the MADhouse name on Facebook and Youtube.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on August 12, 2019, 02:59:48 PM
I see the TCI logo has problemms to be clear so here it is again.


dsk

Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on September 24, 2020, 01:10:29 AM
After long time of testing this trunk
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=4185.msg82828#msg82828
does not work well any more.  I may put it on line 0 (e.g.) and dial 0 and get dial tone, but have to add dtmf from the dialing telephone.
The pulse decoding did not work and just cuts off the connection.

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on September 26, 2020, 07:43:00 AM
Now, I am trying out with a optocoupler relay, so far it seems to work.  Not a good break make ratio, but it is understood by the Smart1 so I deem it to be good enough. This system will not accept to slow dials, but 10-12 PPS seems to be OK so far.
dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on October 09, 2020, 02:16:43 PM
And NO! it does not work good enough, it does not release the line when I hang up. 
Back to the design board  ;)

dsk
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on October 09, 2020, 03:55:09 PM
Maybe just a rectifier is all I need?Ill try it out later.
Title: Re: Any Switchers out There? Xbar, SxS
Post by: dsk on October 11, 2020, 04:44:35 PM
Looks like it is working now, I really hope the rectifier was what who was needed.  The pulse dialing is accepted bot by dialgizmo and smart1 so I guess it is good enough.

dsk