AE-1 & 181427 Network

[ShoeFone]

I have an AE-1 with a 181427 Network that was working with a Spectrum Cable system but of course no rotary dial.

I built a rotary to touch tone conversion to piggy back the tone onto the audio.

My problem is this: I have no way to test the phone at the 30 something volts that it would be at at the persons house who is some miles away.

I tried it a 14V but I cannot hear anything in the earpiece coming back.
From my knowledge I thought it would from my much younger years.

What am I doing wrong.

Thanks, Tom

[dsk]

That network is a pretty common network, and if you just connect a normal (high internal resistance)  battery to the line terminals, you should hear yourselves.   1-2 batteries in series with 2 telephones, and you should have a good working voice transmission between the 2 phones.  

[ShoeFone]

I was looking for more detailed info if possible. By high impedance what to what as far as a suitable Ω ?

I'm using just a 12V / 4A Motorola supply across L1 - L2.
The impedance is a mystery and unknown.

I can provide the chicken scratches folded up in the coin box if necessary.
I scanned it and enlarged it.

It shows the original working phone (less dialing) but no voltage applied gives any indication of working by itself.

I do have several model 500's if that is what it takes.

I'm nowhere 14 years old when I knew everything with only 5 numbers to dial.

Please help....

[countryman]

What type of touch tone converter was used? How was it wired in? Pictures would help.
A telephone normally should not be connected directly to a power source.

[dsk]

12V directly over L1-L2 may hurt the transmitter capsule, a 680 ohm resistor in series with the 12V may work, a coil with a resistance of 400-600 ohms may be better. (eg. a relay or transformer winding) The iron core will reduce the loss of voice signals.
The nominal (=theoretical) impedance of a phone will normally be not far from 600 ohms at 1000 Hz. (I have never measured this) The normal voltage measured across the line (L1-L2) will normally be around 5V in off hook position.
The 12V + 680ohms is a simplification of this circuit: https://www.britishtelephones.com/menuhts.htm

............and ending as this:

[ShoeFone]

I lost my coot drive and this is a different machine not privy to my original postings.

I'm over my head in troubles and would beg anyone to please help in reassembling the payphone so I can test it and then employ the Rotary to TT audio.

When I originally posted here, I had come from a serious issue at hospital.

Try as I might, I am at a loss to reassemble the wiring to the 181427 network.

If necessary I will just put it back as it was if I had the chance to have drawn the schematic before the emergency.

What was stoofed in the coin box is shown below.

I did rewire it to the original unknown hand drawn schematic.

Again I forgot what would be necessary to put across L1 & L2 to test for function & audio.

I have many 500 phones if needed for the test.

I am in desperate need as it is causing more stress to get it back together at least.

Thanks all.

[HarrySmith]

I have attached another hand drawn wiring layout I got from another member. I have used it on a few payphones and it works fine. It uses a WE network so hopefully the one you have will have the same terminals. Good luck. Don't stress, remember, it's a hobby. it's supposed to be fun

[ShoeFone]

I already replied with explanation twice and it dumped everything I wrote wit the attached photos.
Now the stress is off the end of the meter.

Here is some info.
After this I am done.
How many times can one person write the explanation?

Linux is a double edged sword. I found and don't ask how. the text I wrote.

That would be my boot drive, not coot drive on my previous post.
I don't understand how the keys are not close enough together to hit the other??

Thanks for the photo but it's still not making sense to me as compare it given the specific network that's in this phone.

The 181427 info was a very hard one to find.
I found only 2 references, all without any clarity in the way "electricians" draw a proper schematic.

One could hook it up to here or here, both having the same designation.
None of them directly electrically connected to each other. As seen in the attached PDF.

The attached PDF doesn't appear to be exactly the same as what I have. (never did find it).
The original drawing that was in the coin box, followed it verbatim, doesn't help in testing it.
I was "helping" a friend by the rotary to TT audio conversion.

Spectrum doesn't think your rotary pulsing contacts clattering away are important, just so much noise to be filtered and ignored.

Anyway I don't have a connection to my internet router that provides a telephone jack at the 33 or so volts necessary to give it a test.

It's not a thing to do, bring the phone back to his house and fiddle with the internal wiring as he watches.

That sort of thing inspires such great competence in front of his very eyes.

The sentence of "It worked before you took it" is a stress inducer all to its very own self, be it in thought or action.

Still stressed out as I have lost too much data.
Mine and the boot up hard drive.

I didn't have to write anything down on paper because "I'll finish this tomorrow"...NOT
Photos and scribbling as you go is imperative!

[rdelius]

That ITT network wires the same as a WE one .Some terminal locations can short together if not neatly wired

[paul-f]

The 181427 info was a very hard one to find.
I found only 2 references, all without any clarity in the way "electricians" draw a proper schematic.

The network is covered in the ITT Practices. (information for installers.)

ITT 55-427-119 i1 Oct84 - 181427 Network

https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=itt+181427

[HarrySmith]

That ITT network wires the same as a WE one .Some terminal locations can short together if not neatly wired

I thought it had the same terminals as the WE. So the connections should all be the same, correct?

[paul-f]

I thought it had the same terminals as the WE. So the connections should all be the same, correct?

The terminals are labeled the same (e.g. L1, A, K, ...), but they obviously have a physically different layout, so the wiring will look different.

Following a schematic or wiring chart works for either network.

[ShoeFone]

I have the ITT 55-427-119 Oct84 - 181427 Network diagram and it makes no sense to my addled brain no matter how many times in the last 5 months I look at it.

I mentioned similar names of non-existent items.
For example in Figure 3, there are 3 places of where to connect the hook switch but I only have a SPDT. Which is/are NC and NO?

I would need less internals showing and a simple this to that chart. Only there are too many ways to do a simple job if (insert flavor) this or that.

I cannot comprehend it in my current condition, hence my pleading for help.
It doesn't make sense right now. I'm still in the same position.

[poplar1]

For example in Figure 3, there are 3 places of where to connect the hook switch but I only have a SPDT. Which is/are NC and NO?

Yes, there are 3 sets of hook switch contacts shown in the ITT manual (See attached from TCI Library). However, since you have only 2 wires soldered to the hook switch, you can eliminate the dotted line hook switch connections from R to GN on the network: these merely short out the receiver in an ITT 500 set, for example (or in a WE 500) when hanging up -- not really necessary.  Also, the diagram shows the incoming line being opened between "Tip" and F, by the hook switch, and also between "Ring" and C on the network by another set of hook switch contacts. You can eliminate this double opening of the line: for example, you can connect the "ring" side of the line directly to C by running a short wire from L2 to C. 

By the way, your original hand-drawn diagram contains at least one error: The handset should *not* connect to C on the network. C is an input for the line, not an output for the handset! (See corrected connections for transmitter and receiver below.)

I would connect it this way:

Tip (green) of line cord to L1
Ring (red) of line cord to L2
Short wire from L2 to C

Hook switch to L1 and F

Handset:
Transmitter to B and R
Receiver to  GN and R

Dial pulsing contacts to F and RR
Dial muting contacts to GN and R (in parallel with the receiver, to suppress the clicks while dialing)

[ShoeFone]

Thanks that should provide a revelation of new thoughts.

It's coming up on 2100 and not the time to test that premise, but tomorrow is coming soon.

I'll try again. The saga continues......