What kind of dial is this?

[Phonatic]

This pic was lifted from a current eBay auction for a W.E. desk stand connected to a 534A subset.  I've not seen a dial like this before.  What was the purposed of the (to me) odd combination of numbers only and letters?

NB:  I tried repeatedly to upload a pic from the listing, but the forum wouldn't accept it.  Apparently, it is of a file type incompatible with posting here, so here is the link to the listing: 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/136078238630

?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20250324084321%26meid%3D708111c73eae4269bded20ccb824b4c4%26pid%3D101949%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D136078238630%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2WithMLRPboosterAndUpdatedFeatures_BP%26brand%3DWestern%2BElectric&_trksid=p4375194.c101949.m162918&_trkparms=parentrq%3Ae1303cb41970a2c6b59dd3affffdf7bc%7Cpageci%3A7fd2332a-5a9e-11f0-a421-debdb74b64cf%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage"]https://www.ebay.com/itm/136078238630?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20250324084321%26meid%3D708111c73eae4269bded20ccb824b4c4%26pid%3D101949%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D136078238630%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2WithMLRPboosterAndUpdatedFeatures_BP%26brand%3DWestern%2BElectric&_trksid=p4375194.c101949.m162918&_trkparms=parentrq%3Ae1303cb41970a2c6b59dd3affffdf7bc%7Cpageci%3A7fd2332a-5a9e-11f0-a421-debdb74b64cf%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage

[TelePlay]

Seller doesn't know or care how to showcase a phone like this.

A bit overall distressed but that #2 disk with un-notched number plate is worth some money.

8 bids from 6 bidders with just under 7 hours to go in the auction. Will go higher.

[paul-f]

Here's the auction photo showing the letters on the 2AE number plate.

Read about it here:

https://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=25452.0

https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/search?q=blr+jmrw

http://www.paul-f.com/weNumberPlates.html#Chart

[Phonatic]

Thanks to Tele-Play for cleaning up my mess of a post.  I don't know what happened to make the URL an entire paragraph.  Color me the luddite.

 . . . and Paul-F, thanks for uploading the pic of the dial and for the explanation of the type of number plate it features.  That's something entirely new to me.  I appreciate learning something new about these phones (as I do frequently since joining the forum).  But, for the life of me I can't understand why I could not upload that same pic from the eBay listing.  I tried everything, including renaming it, converting it to a jpg, etc., etc., and I could not get it to attach to my original post.  I wondered if it had something to do with the fact that the pic is one of those for which eBay sellers can pay extra that enlarges as one hovers a mouse over them.  Ah well, thanks again for the upload and the explanation!

[TelePlay]

With a bit over 2 hours to go, and these now being scarce (hard to find unrestored phones like that in the wild), and sitting at $166, this phone could end up in the $300-400 range, more or less.

The sunset wiring is quite the rats nest.

(screen shot of the eBay listing photo was cropped then saved to my photo folder and attached from that folder to this reply without problem)

[TelePlay]

Based on the YouTube video showing the dial operating, the dial seems to be slow at about 7.2 PPS. That was based on the visual start and stop. When I have time I'll put the audio into Audacity to get a better reading, to see how close I got using just the video.

Edit:  Using the sound in the dial operating video in Audacity, the dial appears to be running at about 8.96 PPS, still slow. A more accurate value than just watching the operation.

[TelePlay]

Sold for $262 plus shipping.

A bit lower than I thought probably due to its condition. Seller did good, someone bought a project.

[Phonatic]

Sold for $262 plus shipping.

A bit lower than I thought probably due to its condition. Seller did good, someone bought a project.

Well, the "someone" was me   

Yes, it is somewhat of a project, but I am in no hurry to "make it work" or to connect it up.  I feel, all things considered, I got a pretty decent deal on it.  I will focus initially on just making it more presentable cosmetically and then move on to any mechanical/electrical issues.  I agree that the "rat's nest" of wiring has to go, but overall I think the phone presents well.  I noticed from the pics that the ringer bias spring is missing, so have ordered one.

I will no doubt be on the forum off and on with questions.  I appreciate everyone's help!

[TelePlay]

The #2 dial with un-notched number plate and a complete number card holder is by itself worth $200 or more (they don't show up on eBay these days) so you got a stick and subset for $60 (a 534 in that condition lists on eBay for about $50 plus shipping). So you got the stick for $10.

Fully restored the phone could sell for twice what you paid for it, if not more.

You got a nice project phone that should turn out very nice.

BTW, it's a side tone phone but if the hook switch has an extra set of leaves, it may be possible to put a 101a induction coil in the subset (make it a 634) and use a 4 conductor mounting cord to make it an anti-sidetone phone. The hook switch in the stick controls that modification.

[poplar1]

Well, the "someone" was me  :

Could you take photos of the inside of the base?

It looks like an early 50-AL:

"PAT APP FOR" on the side of the 2AE dial,

Patent dates on the back of the base --probably with 1918 as the latest.

Nice orginal phone. I hope you don't plan to repaint it or otherwise "improve" it

[Phonatic]

Could you take photos of the inside of the base?

It looks like an early 50-AL:

"PAT APP FOR" on the side of the 2AE dial,

Patent dates on the back of the base --probably with 1918 as the latest.

Nice orginal phone. I hope you don't plan to repaint it or otherwise "improve" it

I will take the photos you request as soon as possible after the phone arrives (slated for Friday or Saturday of this week, according to USPS). 

That's a big NO to a repaint.  I will do my best to clean accumulated years of gunk, and whatever finish is underneath will be polished and left as is. 

[Phonatic]

The #2 dial with un-notched number plate and a complete number card holder is by itself worth $200 or more (they don't show up on eBay these days) so you got a stick and subset for $60 (a 534 in that condition lists on eBay for about $50 plus shipping). So you got the stick for $10.

Fully restored the phone could sell for twice what you paid for it, if not more.

You got a nice project phone that should turn out very nice.

BTW, it's a side tone phone but if the hook switch has an extra set of leaves, it may be possible to put a 101a induction coil in the subset (make it a 634) and use a 4 conductor mounting cord to make it an anti-sidetone phone. The hook switch in the stick controls that modification.

It's nice to know that for once I have a phone that might actually turn a profit, should I decide to sell it.  Of course, I won't know for sure until I have the phone physically in front of me, but it didn't appear from the pictures to be in bad shape.  I see corrosion on the number card holder as well as the brightwork on the finger stop of the dial, but other than that, it didn't appear to be too bad.  Cleaning and polishing should help tremendously.  Perhaps at some point I might consider replating the nickel finger stop, but I'm in no hurry about that.  I'm the type who doesn't mind an antique wearing its age proudly, as long as it's not too derelict. 

As far as converting the 534 to a AST unit, I really don't mind it staying as it is.  I've used sidetone sticks before and it really doesn't bother me all that much, as I wouldn't be in a situation to have to call from a noisy environment. 

Regarding the switch hook leaves, how many are there in a sidetone phone?  Otherwise, I wouldn't know if it has an extra one or not to make it an anti-sidetone phone. 

So much to learn!  I'm also currently working on restoring a 30s Columbia wind-up portable phono, so the phone will wait its turn.  But I will get to it! 

Thank you again for your help and insights.  I truly appreciate it.

[poplar1]

As far as converting the 534 to a AST unit, I really don't mind it staying as it is.  I've used sidetone sticks before and it really doesn't bother me all that much, as I wouldn't be in a situation to have to call from a noisy environment. 

Regarding the switch hook leaves, how many are there in a sidetone phone?  Otherwise, I wouldn't know if it has an extra one or not to make it an anti-sidetone phone. 

Your sidetone 534A needs to remain as is, as does the sidetone 50-AL, in my opinion. They can be original only once.

50-AL and 51-AL have a 3-leaf switch hook.

Western Electric apparently never manufactured an anti-sidetone desk stand (candlestick). The anti-sidetone version is coded 151-AL, with a 4-leaf switch hook.  All 151-ALs are conversions from an earlier 50-, 51-, or 20-type. (All 5302s, also,  all conversions.) Conversions were done in the WE Repair Shops, not in the WE factories.

If you want a "daily driver", look for a 151-AL, which is anti-sidetone with a 4-conductor cord going to a 634A,  684A, 495A, 634BA, 684BA, or the base of a 302.  If the 151-AL has a 635A "bulldog" transmitter and a 706A receiver, and used with an AST subset, then it is electrically equivalent to a 302.

634As are easy to find, since most of the 534As were converted in the WE repair shops or even in the field. Most eBay sellers  don't give the model number of their phones, or show the insides -- even collectors!

[Phonatic]

Your sidetone 534A needs to remain as is, as does the sidetone 50-AL, in my opinion. They can be original only once.

I agree, and it will.

50-AL and 51-AL have a 3-leaf switch hook.

Thank you for that information.

Western Electric apparently never manufactured an anti-sidetone desk stand (candlestick). The anti-sidetone version is coded 151-AL, with a 4-leaf switch hook.  All 151-ALs are conversions from an earlier 50-, 51-, or 20-type. (All 5302s, also,  all conversions.) Conversions were done in the WE Repair Shops, not in the WE factories.

Interesting!  I did not know that.

If you want a "daily driver", look for a 151-AL, which is anti-sidetone with a 4-conductor cord going to a 634A,  684A, 495A, 634BA, 684BA, or the base of a 302.  If the 151-AL has a 635A "bulldog" transmitter and a 706A receiver, and used with an AST subset, then it is electrically equivalent to a 302.

My "daily driver" is my 102/B1 phone; I'm not really looking for a stick for daily use.  (Then again, we know how that can be, i.e., "not looking" vs. "found one!"

634As are easy to find, since most of the 534As were converted in the WE repair shops or even in the field. Most eBay sellers  don't give the model number of their phones, or show the insides -- even collectors!

So true!  Some of the eBay listings are laughable with the transmitter faces upside down, the receiver generally hung on the switchhook upside down, etc., etc.  I guess we can't expect all sellers to know much about early phones.

I currently have a 534 for which I purchased a 101A coil to convert it (haven't yet) as well as an almost pristine 634.  The conversion factor would explain why 534s are getting harder to come by, I suppose.

[Doug Rose]

The Party line dial plate and Marked 2AE finger stop are great finds. I was watching this to bid on this until it went too high. Sometime old Nickel will just have rust on the surface, retainer ring and finger stop should clean up with Brasso and fine steel wool. As David said, it is only original once. Clean it and leave it. My guess is you bring DT to it and it will work. Nice phone...Doug