Nickel Rejection Gate?

[Connu]

Post pictures of the dial back and front.

Here you go.  It's a mess, but I did take it apart and find that one end of the rachet spring had fallen out.  I was able to put it back and now the tone is always good and strong.  There's still a problem.  The dial won't break the tone to call out.

[Connu]

I'm sure Charter uses Supervision internally. I'm also sure they don't transmit it to the calling phone.

I'm sure your correct.  What would this effect in my particular model other than the nickel gate opening after the initial deposit which I can't test without figuring out why the dial isn't working.

[Stan S]

Are you sure your phone service accepts pulse dialing?

[Connu]

Are you sure your phone service accepts pulse dialing?

The Spectrum (sorry, I kept calling it Charter in previous posts) telephony ATA service we pay for does support pulse dialing.  I had forgotten that my father-in-law also gave me an old AE two-piece phone.  I just dug it out and tested it.  Works great. I either have a bad dial, or my wiring is off.

[HarrySmith]

Since both phones are AE maybe compare dial wiring & operation?

[Connu]

Since both phones are AE maybe compare dial wiring & operation?

They are very different on the inside.  I am however, pondering taking the dial out and trying it in the payphone since I know it works.  I'm checking the schematic and tracing wires again.

[HarrySmith]

Yes, obviously they are much different phones but the dials should be similar. Swapping them is not a bad idea just be sure you draw a good map of every wire you take off

[Connu]

I always take pictures, for sure!  No luck though.  That one didn't break the dial tone either.

[Stan S]

It's hard to troubleshoot remotely. Since the second dial didn't work either let's go back to the beginning. Try reversing the tip and ring polarity.

[Connu]

Hi Stan.  I'm hitting several things at once.  First, there was a bad connection on transmitter in the handset.  Second, the first dial was bad.  I'll look into that another day. Finally, it looks like my coin relay is bad.  Once I wired up a harness to leave the upper housing off, I could manually control the armature. The phone will dial forcing the armature fully to the left and disconnect the transmitter forcing it to the right as if the polarity had been reversed. Manually tripping the coin trigger reconnects the transmitter.

How do I test the relay? How do I test both of the coils/windings?

[Stan S]

Connu
Remember, you asked for this. Good luck!
See: https://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/document-repository/ae-tech-bulletins/3906-ae-tb-470-919-1962-semi-postpay-paystation/file

[Connu]

Stan, you're the man.  I had the 470-918 tech bulletin for prepay models but couldn't seem to find the 470-919 for semi-postpay models.  I've made the service adjustments.  There was an issue of a bent spring on the relay pile.  I notice a hint of movement in the relay armature when going on and off hook.  I suspect I'll need a new relay, but I'm on my second cocktail of the evening, so testing will have to wait until tomorrow!

[Connu]

I did a bunch of testing and troubleshooting this morning.  I'm in way deeper than I ever imagined, but having fun Stan.  The upper coin relay coil tests out at just over 2,900 ohms.  The bottom coils test out at almost 164 ohms. I also figured out that I had the line in on L1 and L2 flipped.  I took apart the armature and cleaned it up. I also made the slightest adjustment to the armature pivot screw to release a slight bit of pressure. Now the armature always resets to the left idle position when the hook is lifted.

I did some maintenance on the lineswitch pile to make sure that the "all open" idle, call answer, and coin deposited settings were working. They weren't, so I proceeded to very carefully bend/tweak the lineswitch springs until I got the proper open gaps of at least .01 inches and the proper switch contacts for each setting.  I ultimately had to entirely remove the lineswitch to adjust the two switch contacts furthest to the left (#1 & #2).  I finally got it after a couple of hours of trial and error.  I suspect there'll be a "next-time" and it should go a lot faster, especially if I could find the proper adjustment tool.

All of this and dialing still wouldn't break the tone.  I'm embarrassed to say that I wasn't paying any attention to the lack of a dial pulse.  I guess I was thinking that would happen after the dial tone was broken, not realizing that the first pulse is supposed to actually do the breaking! Upon closer inspection of my second dial, I realized that the dial impulse cam was barely touching the pulse spring so that pulse contact stayed closed.  A very slight bend of the tip of the impulse spring towards the cam resolved the issue and the phone dials out and connects every time!

However, polarity doesn't appear to reverse on answer, so the transmitter stays working and the coin functionality is broken.  This is great as a home phone, but I really want the phone to fully demonstrate the coin functionality.  I suspect this is where Stan started when he said that Spectrum doesn't fully support answer supervision and recommended that I get a Grandstream FXS Port Analog Telephone Adapter.  Does this all seem correct, Stan?  In the end, I ordered the Grandstream HT802 for delivery tomorrow.

[Stan S]

Connu I told you it would be fun. I'm sure the payphone will now work 100% with the Grandstream. The only problem left will be programming the ATA.That is not fun. Voip.mc.com can help you with that.

[Connu]

Connu I told you it would be fun. I'm sure the payphone will now work 100% with the Grandstream. The only problem left will be programming the ATA.That is not fun. Voip.mc.com can help you with that.

It has been fun.  I'm glad I got into this hobby.  I'm still a newbie but learning fast.  These old payphones are so simple yet so complicated and fiddly.  I fall well within the solid-state digital age.  It's fun to work on these old devices.  It's amazing what they used to call a microswitch!

I have read that the Grandstream ATA is pretty ugly to program.  I'll work with Voip.mc.com and post when I get the phone completely working.  I should have it this afternoon.