D1 on 685 Subset dies intermittently

[Jack Aman]

I have a D1 operating on a 685 subset.  The wiring on this old phone to it's much newer subset was done as per terrific instructions that I received here.  It has worked perfectly for a long time. Lately, however, it's been failing.  It will start by not reliably giving dial tone when lifted, then over a few days will go completely silent.  Interesting, removing red from the network briefly restores dial tone and function.  Hook it back up and the phone works for a while then fails again.  My question...is the network itself(I think a 425) ever a point of failure?  I had the idea they'd go forever.  Appreciate anybody's experiences.

[MMikeJBenN27]

. . . removing red from the network briefly restores dial tone and function.  Hook it back up and the phone works for a while then fails again.

The red wire in the handset cord or the red wire in the subset cord, or the red wire in the line cord to the wall?

Mike

[Jack Aman]

The subset cord.  Sorry!

[poplar1]

Do you have an E1-type or an F1-type handset?

By "silent" do you mean that you hear nothing in the receiver, but you can still transmit and you can still trip (stop) the ringing when you pick up the handset?

Or, does the ringer keep ringing after you remove the handset from the cradle?

Which diagram are you referring to -- the one with a 5-conductor mounting cord (Bell System Standard) or something else?

[HowardPgh]

Intermittent problems are hard to track down. Making sure your contacts are clean in the hookswitch and dial is a start. Also check your connections by jiggling them, you could have an internal break in a cord.
I never heard of a 425 network going bad, they seem pretty bulletproof.

[HarrySmith]

Did you or your phone service provider change anything? Do you have another phone to test?

[Jack Aman]

The red subset wire from the phone connects to "R" on the network.  When the phone "dies" removing that wire from it's connection on the network restores dial tone and function.  Re-connecting it makes receiver sound incrementally louder (VERY) small difference.  Phone works fine.  But in a couple days time, silence again.  Same steps as described above restores function.  Phone has been wired just this way and has worked fine--it is in fact the "daily driver" on my desk!  For now I have just taped off the red wire...will see what that does in a few days.  Any ideas?  Thanks as always for the wisdom here!

[poplar1]

What happens if you connect the two red wires together, but not on the R dial terminal? (Just connected together, using some bare wire or a screw and nut.) I.am guessing you are already using the brass R terminal on the mounting for the black handset conductor and the black mounting cord conductor.

[Jack Aman]

I believe the black wires inside the phone are nutted together.  I haven't been inside this phone in a long time.  Will take a look.  Thank you.  You actually helped me wire up this phone and subset quite a while ago.  It has worked perfectly until lately.

[poplar1]

The 4228 networks do sometimes go bad. On a Touch-tone phone with a bad 4228 network, it will appear that the dial pad is defective. The Western Electric Service Center just replaced a bad 4228 network, rather than try to repair it.

[poplar1]

If you decide to replace the network, use a 425-type if possible.

[poplar1]

I believe the black wires inside the phone are nutted together.  I haven't been inside this phone in a long time.  Will take a look.  Thank you.  You actually helped me wire up this phone and subset quite a while ago.  It has worked perfectly until lately.

I probably told you then that it was OK to use the R dial terminal for the 2 red wires. In a 302, the 5H dial shorts the line as soon as the dial is operated, which makes a more distinct square wave with the dial pulsing. I never had a problem ( when connecting a 202 to a 685A subset) using the R terminal on the dial for the two red wires, which freed up the brass R terminal for the 2 black wires. But perhaps it is causing a problem if that's where you have the 2 red wires -- that's why I suggested isolating them. But when I saw the 4228 network, I thought that it's more likely the problem.

[Jack Aman]

I'm inclined to agree given that no mechanical/switch problems are evident and there haven't been any wiring changes.  That puts me on the hunt for a 425 network.  Thanks for help!

[HarrySmith]

I jst picked up a Medium Flat Rate box full of 425 networks. over 30 of them, from a fellow collector who needed to get rid of some. PM me with your address and I will send you one.

[Jack Aman]

Thank you sir. PM sent.