Identifying function of white base button on 50Al candlestick and receiver mfg

[rfkimba]

I just joined the forum and recently  telephony  . Attached are some photos of a phone ultimately purchased on EBAy for $40+ shipping. I originally paid $120 and it was represented as a 20AL but turned out to be a 50AL.

I was trying to identify the function of the white button on the base and the manufacturer of the receiver.

It has   a modular jack and produces a nice dial tone. It was painted black at one time as there are remnants of black on the switchhook. The receiver is labeled 329.

The cup has no patent or manufacurer. As the base says Western Electric and the transmitter says 329, I'd guess its a WE phone  .  I searched for one of  Sargeguy's  amazing tutorials but couldn't find one on distinguishing receivers.
Thanks for your feedback.
Bob Farber

[G-Man]

Hi Bob-

Welcome to the forum!

Here are a couple of wiring diagrams for the 50AL deskstand.

Can you post a photo of the inside showing the original wiring and cords?
How did you determine that is the proper model number?

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/2118-desk-stands-50al-tl
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/3483-c63-373-i2-desk-stand-connections-cb

[Phonesrfun]

Welcome to the forum Bob:

Your phone is Western Electric.

Most deskstands were originally black in color.  Brass was thought to be cheap, and even though many were made of brass, they were covered with black paint or nickeled over.  Never were phones "brassed out".  It is popular today to have brassed out phones for the looks, but know that they were never in use that way.

The button could have been added after the fact, and used for any number of purposes such as signaling in the case of an intercom.  Can you take a photo of the inside of the phone?  Personally, I don't think it was original to the phone like that, but there are many phones that have had pushbuttons added during their lives for various things.

Also, if there is a modular cord on it and no subset, the dial tone you are getting is probably due to the receiver and transmitter simply being connected in series across the phone line.  At least I don't see a subset in your photos, and you did not say if there was a mini-network hidden in the base of the phone.  Connecting the receiver and transmitter in series works somewhat, but is not how the phone was designed to be connected. 

A subset isolates the DC line voltage from the receiver and passes only the AC voice voltages.  The subset contains an induction coil, one or more capacitors and a ringer.  Because these components were relatively large in the early days of telephones, they were mounted externally from the phone on a wall.  It was not until the late 1930's when components were getting small enough to be included in the phone itself.

Having the full amount of the phone line voltage going through the receiver can cause two problems.  First is a very loud pop in the receiver every time the phone goes on or off hook.  That can lead so some serious issues with one's hearing, and is at least an annoyance.  Second is that with a constant DC flow through the receiver, the permanent magnet in the receiver can be de-magnetized, leading to a gradual lessening of sensitivity of the receiver.

Some people have said that having a deskstand (candlestick) or even a 102/202 style phone without a subset is like having half a phone.  That depends on who you are talking to and what you want to achieve.  If you want authenticity, then a subset would be in order.  If you want functionality, then you could leave it as is and not hold the receiver up to your ear while taking it on or off hook; get a subset; put a mini-network inside the phone that does what a subset does; or make a "cheater subset" out of a resistor and capacitor that will give you pretty much the same experience as a subset or a mini network, but much cheaper. 

Cheers,

[poplar1]

I'm guessing you're saying it is a "50AL" because that is the number stamped on the back of the "perch" that holds the transmitter? Actually, a 50AL has a dial (or at least a blank plate where a dial could be added later). The non-dial brass phone is usually coded something like 20-AL, but someone may have mixed parts before you received the phone.

The receiver looks to be a Western Electric 144 or 143.

[rfkimba]

Thanks for the feedback. I took some additional photos to clarify the info supplied wrt to wiring , m odel and base.
Looks like a Frankenphone with mixed parts. Upon inspection of the tapered perch I noted 50AT which was crossed out. I glanced under the front of the perch hidden under the transmitter and found 151AT not crosseed  out! Photos I had seen of crossed out model numbers never showed them to be on the    reverse perch side. The cartridge inside the receiver (on a 18" cord) says 75z which matches the cartridge inside another WE144  receiver I  have. The top of this  receiver looks slightly more convex and I was thinking AE. There is no exterior subset with the unit. I couldn't open the felt covered base to see if one was inside. The base says WE latest patent Sept 13 1904. There is no evidence of a place for a dial. Just the white button which I assume was for an intercom. When the swithhook is depressed the dial tone cuts out. I didnt test to see if the tranmitter works.
Any further thoughts ?
Thanks for your  feedback?

[dencins]

From what I can see you have a 151AL that had the base replaced with one that has the white button.  Everything else to me looks like a 151AL including the base plate that has three screw holes that would fit the dial type base.  You should find the only screw being used is the one in the center of the base plate that attaches to the switch plate.  The dial-type base plates (50AL and 151AL) base plates had three holes in a triangle pattern while the 20-AL had three holes in a line.

It was not unusual for WECo to re-use parts to assemble phones and I would say the 50AL perch was stamped 151AL for the phone.  In this case it looks like it probably left the factory as a 151AL and was modified later with the button.

If you get a dial type base and dial (maybe a 4h OR 5H) along with a subset (like a 634) you would have a 151AL.

One other point - to me the transmitter looks like a 323 not a 329.

Dennis Hallworth

[rfkimba]

Dennis,
Thanks. I think I will get my reading rx checked this summer before the Lancaster show.
Sincerly,
Bob Farber

[Phonesrfun]

I know how you feel about waiting between shows.  I live in Washington State, and the collectors in the West are a lot more spread out and we have fewer and smaller shows.  Networking with other collectors is your best bet.  Not being from where you are, I don't have any clue as far as shops and so forth, but it is my experience that there really are no store-front type shops that cater to us phone-atics.

This forum has the best of many worlds going for it.  Much knowledge and many who are willing to sell parts and phones.  In fact, many who go to Lancaster and other shows hang around here. 

There are three list-serve format forums.  The TCI and ATCA Listserves and the C*Net listserve.  The listserves are basically a Yahoo forum that posting and replying is either done while logged into Yahoo or via an e-mail feed.  The listserve concept is not as user friendly as this forum, but there are still some collectors that have not yet migrated over to this forum.  The listserves were here first, and old habits die hard.  The C*Net listserve is for those interested in the collector based switcher's network.

This forum has the ability to post pictures as you have already seen.  The listserves don't handle pictures quite as well.  We also have a tendency to be more polite around here than some have experienced in the list serve arena.

All that is to say that this is a great place to network and we have a classified section too.  More often than not, I have posted a need for something and gotten a very quick response.

[rfkimba]

I posted a classified ad indicating my interest in acquiring  rare and semi rare candlesticks .
Thanks,
Bob Farber

[poplar1]

Your baseplate is from a B-1 hand set mounting (102/202) with a new hole added  in the center. 50AL/51AL/151AL baseplates have 3 holes in a triangular pattern, but equal distances from the edge.

When a 51AL is converted to 151AL, it's possible to stamp a "1" to the left of the original code. But changing 50AL to 151AL is a little more complicated; that's why they put the new code on the front. Sometimes they are even recoded a third time on the side.

Converting a 50AL to a 151AL included changing the hookswitch from 3 make contact springs to 2 sets of 2 each. This was done sometime after the introduction of the new "anti-sidetone" circuit in 1930. However, there should be 4 terminals for a 151AL hookswitch and I see only 3 in the photo. I believe your rack may be from a 20AL after all if the terminal names have not been restamped (see list of terminals below). However, the GN terminal has been removed. If this is the case, you could swap just the "perch" to a 20AL, add the GN terminal back, plug the hole where the pushbutton is, and paint it black except for the transmitter, which you could have renickeled if desired. I'm sure someone would trade a 20-AL perch and 20-AL baseplate for your 151-AL perch and B1 baseplate.

20AL: W, R, YY contacts; Y, GN additional terminals
151AL: BB, R; B, Y
50AL: BB, R, YY, YY, Y, GN, W on front; BB, BK, Y and W on back.
51AL: BB, R, YY.

20ALs were sometimes upgraded to anti-sidetone and recoded 120AL.

An anti-sidetone desk stand (120AL, 151AL) or hand telephone set (202, 211) can be used with either a sidetone subset (534A, 295A, 334A, 584A) or anti-sidetone (634A, 684A, 495BP, 634BA, 684BA). The subset (subscriber's set) is a separate box which includes the induction coil, condenser(s) and ringer. While these parts were often included inside a wall phone, they were much too large to fit inside a desk phone, until they were made small enough to fit inside the "combined" set such as a Western Electric 302 in 1936.

A sidetone desk stand (20AL, 20B, 40AL, 50AL, 51AL, etc.) should be used with a sidetone subset. However, it is possible to use a rewired anti-sidetone subset (Bell System Practices, WR-C63.373).

[dencins]

Great observation on the hole locations on the base plate.  I saw the three holes in a triangle and immediately thought of a dial type base plate but you are absolutely correct about it being a B1 with the third hole added.

Dennis Hallworth

[rfkimba]

I thank the "faculty" much.
Bob

[Sargeguy]

My theory is that it was cobbled together from spare parts to be used as an Interphone.  How is the button wired?