WE-51 - Real or Been Had?

[Slal]

Thanks for replies.  And to answer one member's question.  Nope!  Not going to let one loss chase me away.  Be like quitting sports for the season just because you lost the first game.  ; )

So my pricey phone as I understand it so far:

Mouthpiece: legit.
Transmitter Cup: divided opinion.
Yoke: legit & probably reworked
Stick: tab & not pin so assume this part is retro 70's or reproduction avail. on e-bay.
Base: unknown: reproductions avail from Canada on e-bay.
Dialer: legit but with incorrect dial ring.
Receiver: legit but impossible to know if from this phone.  Am given to understand it's appropriate to this model.
Cradle: no rivot so safe to assume legit?
Brass: probably black phone with paint stripped off.


Electronic components:
T1 microphone but no T1 network.
Network: infer it's the part labeled "IND 101 B II 52" ?
Receiver: appropriate to this model
Cradle's switch: haven't taken apart yet.

Price:  Over-paid, but for a novice-- they were confusing.

On-line retailers:


https://www.oldphoneworks.com/model-51al-candlestick-with-no-2ab-dial.html


https://www.oldphoneworks.com/model-51al-candlestick-with-no-2ab-dial.html

http://www.oldphones.com/category-s/1831.htm

http://www.oldphoneman.com/OldAntiqueTelephonesForSale.htm

http://www.oldradioparts.com/pg5.htm

http://www.oldradioparts.com/pg5.htm

BIN phones on e-bay:
370820410156 - 51AL w/subset ; 14 day return
111262261045 - 51AL w/534 subset ; no returns

Auctions:
321337743888 - 151AL w/subset & uhm... sleigh bells?

They really made sleigh bells, church bells and cow bells?  Ma Bells?  ; )

Anyway, learned valuable lesson with this phone and glad I found this place.  Had been interested in a WE- A1 but from e-bay, looks like they are *way* out of price range.

AE-1a looks pretty cool too.  Will start separate topic on that one though.  What part numbers went into them, what was correct subset & its part #'s and above all... Reasonable asking prices, or if I restore reel to reel tape decks-- learning to restore an old phone I might find at a flea market or estate sale probably my best bet and the most fun!   

Thanks again & enjoy weekend

--Bruce

[Sargeguy]

I really don't see many problems with the phone except the T-1 transmitter.  The pins on the base are frequently broken off on dial phones when they are taken apart by people who do not have spanner wrenches to unscrew the stem bolt. 

Sleigh bell ringers are a nice find.  Dial phones were never nickel plated (except by Dennis) they were always black,  That subset has a 425 network, probably more modifications you can't see.

[Slal]

Heh... Had assumed sleigh bells (or cow bells in my case) were aftermarket gimmick.  The ones pictured below aren't marked and are non-ferrous metal with a thin coat of brass.  Authentic?  Repro?  No way to tell?  Anyway, here it is if decide to repaint.





From fake phone sticky, gather a pin (or hole for it) should be in back.  Look for a tab on the fakes.  Don't see anything here one way or the other. 

Is bolt supposed to have knock-outs, or someone didn't have correct tool & mangled it?  Also note the oil.  Clean that up, or there for insulation/anti-oxidation?



Requested detail of wires from switch & its markings.  Correct for phone or what was in his parts drawer? 

Final question's a digression. ; )

This AE-1A looks pretty cool on Ebay 321337760966

Anyone know this guy?  Opinions welcome on subset and what to ask him if decide to bid.  I notice he is *not* showing 'guts' of phone & No Returns!  Ask him about NOS or replacement parts or stay away completely!

Even if complete, maybe Monophone out of the budget for now?  This guy seems proud of his.  No idea old phones could be so expensive!

http://www.oldphoneman.com/ForSaleAE1a.htm

thx

--Bruce

[poplar1]

The hook switch is proper for a 51-AL.  Notice that the R and GN have been marked out (R GN) since those two terminals were present when it was a 20-AL switch but are not needed for a 51-AL. Also, the W has been struck out and relabeled BB. This is for the brown-blue wire which connects to the BB terminal on the dial.

I would be interested to know why he claimed a 51-AL is anti-sidetone, even though he did use a 4-conductor cord and a homemade anti-sidetone subset. Where was the black wire from the subset connected inside the phone?

[Slal]

I would be interested to know why he claimed a 51-AL is anti-sidetone, even though he did use a 4-conductor cord and a homemade anti-sidetone subset. Where was the black wire from the subset connected inside the phone?

Black from subset connected to "BK" on dialer along with green from T-1. 

Not sure I understand about the subset.  Why is it considered 'homemade?' 

1.) The terminals on the top have been chopped and lead no where.  For collectability this has just destroyed it?

2.) What exactly is the 'network' part?  Does it have a part or model number?  Time period?

3.) The ringer looks like it came with the box but of course I'm no expert.  Did it have a model number also?
 
Would like to be able to say, "The phone has a modified subset with a model X network from (approx. year & phone) , and a model Y ringer (from approx. year & phone.")

thx

--Bruce

[poplar1]

The wood box was an extension ringer (#127?)--probably from c. 1920. Then it was recoded D-5979 (?)--still an extension ringer but maybe that indicates cow bells. These were sometimes installed in a location away from the main telephone, either as an extension ringer or in place of the ringer in the main telephone

Then someone added a 101A induction coil--looks like a 1950s date on it--from a 302 set, and two capacitors, one for the talking circuit and one for the ringer.  To clarify, I meant the modifications were "homemade," or aftermarket, but the box and ringer are old WE. The modifications makes it roughly equivalent to a 634A subset.

A "network" contains in one unit the induction coil, capacitors, varistors, etc. An example is the 425-type network found in a 500 set. A 101A is not a network, just an induction coil.

[Slal]

Got it.  Thanks!

Final question, then put topic to rest.

Worth trying to find 'correct' transmitter and painting it?

Or... Original wiring gone.  Original paint stripped off.

Serious collectors probably say, "Sorry, you have a 'donor unit.'  Will never be worth more than the price of some of its parts."

Don't put any more money into it! 

What say the experts?  : )

--Bruce

[Sargeguy]

A painted 337 transmitter should cost about $20

[poplar1]

A painted 337 transmitter should cost about $20

And the proper guts for your transmitter can be found for much less than that.

[Slal]

Cool. A catalog, exploded diagram or parts list (with numbers) would be vey helpful.  Have one for AEC from a topic about a monophone.  Came in very handy in deciding whether to bid or not, or to understand just what I was seeing in the seller's photos. 

Anyone know where I might find a catalog for WE from this time frame?

Might help answer following that questions that got overlooked, or maybe there are no answers.

1.) Wooden box with the terminals cut off is worthless?  Or am I mistaken in assuming serious collectors would want *exact* subset that would've come with phone-- not a homemade one with cowbells on it!    A catalog would help answer, "You need a model ABC123" subset from page so & so of catalog."

BTW:  e-bay auction for sleigh bell phone (321337743888) didn't do half bad.  Followed it out of curiosity & it fetched $425.  (His did have a pin in the back & 'correct' transmitter if not mistaken.)   

thx

--Bruce