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fold-a-fone candlestick help

Started by montanadad, December 28, 2023, 11:20:36 AM

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dsk

#15
The original wiring diagram looks equal to the Siemens W48, and will probably work well. The dial pulse signal is between white and green. Red and black may short the receiver, or the entire voice circuit when the dial is in its off rest position, when dialing a number.

G-Man

Due to the bracket blocking the view I'm unable to see which contacts the wire are connected to.
 
It is now clear that there are only four wires. Two should be for the pulsing contacts and the the other two should be used for muting the clicks and pops in the receiver.
 
You should be able to quickly determine on your own which wires are which and should not have any problems, especially since Paul Fassbender has provided you with links to the AECo mini-network wiring diagrams.

dsk

Here is whats hided under the slate cord:

G-Man

Quote from: dsk on December 30, 2023, 04:06:00 AMHere is whats hided under the slate cord:
Yes, but it's moot at this point since he apparently thinks he will save time by replacing the existing network with an AECo mini-network.
 
DSK, be sure to save your version of this schematic for posterity. It may prove to be invaluable to the next person who needs to troubleshoot a problem with this model of instrument.

tubaman

If it were mine I'd certainly want to keep the original components if at all possible. The wiring for the dial is shown on the diagram - White = D1, Green = D2, Red = D3 and Black = D4.

G-Man

Quote from: tubaman on December 30, 2023, 06:25:45 AMIf it were mine I'd certainly want to keep the original components if at all possible. The wiring for the dial is shown on the diagram - White = D1, Green = D2, Red = D3 and Black = D4.
Absolutely, even though it was manufactured during the 1970s, the best option is to preserve it in its original state for historical purposes. That is the reason I enhanced the diagram that I asked him to provide.
 
While it shouldn't take a technically competent collector much time to restore it back to working condition, the owner of this instrument stated he only has about a week to get it back to working condition in time for his daughter's birthday.
 
However, depending on one's level of technical competency, it may take them longer to wire a simple AECo mini-network than to check and make any necessary corrections to the existing wiring of this set. Especially if the existing transmitter, receiver, hookswitch or dial have any issues.

montanadad

Quote from: dsk on December 30, 2023, 04:06:00 AMHere is whats hided under the slate cord:
ok Ok.  you guys point out keeping it as original as possible.  I'm willing.   This really helps and will work on this today and get back with my findings and what happens after I get it all connected with the noted contact point colors.  Thanks :) :)

dsk

As mentioned before, the diagram looks pretty equal to the German W48.
This diagram has been used on extremely large number of telephone models used in Europe, and in other parts of the world.  It woorks extremely well on shorter lines, and fits well to most ATA's made for the typical 600 ohms line.
It did not fit into the goals of Bell, or to the Norwegian telegrafverkets to be able to operate on long or bad lines. (Still did telegrafverket use one version with similar diagram in a small number made from 1934). 
https://www.britishtelephones.com/siemens/diagrams/w48amtsz.pdf
and
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=19290.msg197931#msg197931

montanadad

Hooray.   I just got this working and so far so good.  I can call and it rings.  I can pick up and hear and talk (though a bit of an echo).  The only real issue is I can't dial out which means my  ATA adapter does not support rotary so I have ordered a rotary to DTMF adapter.  Once I get it.  I'll ping back here and let everyone know how its going.  So far, it looks like I am good for her birthday to at least have the phone ring and have her pick up which should be fun.  

countryman

Congratulations for the success!
The echo issue has been discussed on the German forum lately - apparently the W48-type speaking circuits and the modern equipment do not work together very well at this point. I have not experienced this problem in person, or not bad enough to feel annoyed, or I blamed it to the fact the other party was using a cellphone. But it seems to be an existing issue.

dsk

Nice to hear that it is working. 
Regarding the echo, it may be several things to do to reduce the problem.
Liksys/Sipura/Cisco ++ are pretty equal on this. Try different values of line compensation, and echo reduction.
The last thin is to try again, but now with a resistor in series 220 ohms use to be OK, sometimes with a 1 uf capacitor in parallell with the resistor. (The resistor makes the DC resistance in the line to be higer, closer to a normal line) (If this lower the volume to much, the capacitor lets the voice-signal pass the resistor.  )

montanadad

Quote from: dsk on January 03, 2024, 07:02:54 AMNice to hear that it is working. 
Regarding the echo, it may be several things to do to reduce the problem.
Liksys/Sipura/Cisco ++ are pretty equal on this. Try different values of line compensation, and echo reduction.
The last thin is to try again, but now with a resistor in series 220 ohms use to be OK, sometimes with a 1 uf capacitor in parallell with the resistor. (The resistor makes the DC resistance in the line to be higer, closer to a normal line) (If this lower the volume to much, the capacitor lets the voice-signal pass the resistor.  )
Where exactly do I put the cap and resistor at?  

dsk

Inside, or as close to the phone as possible.
Somebody states that it should be splitted and put with half resistance on each line to keep it balanced, but by making it "a part of the phone" this will not be needed.