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Kotton Klenser for Bakelite?

Started by Phonatic, January 10, 2025, 11:30:29 PM

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Phonatic

I am getting ready to clean and polish my newly-acquired Kellogg 900.  There are so many ways described of cleaning and polishing Bakelite, both here on the forum as well as the Web. 

Having a can of Kotton Klenser on hand, I wondered if anyone here had tried it to clean Bakelite.  I don't have any Brasso, Simichrome or Flitz on hand, but do have a can of KK which has barely been used.  Has anyone had experience with using this product on Bakelite?  Are there any contraindications to using it?

Thanks in advance!
Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

TelePlay

#1
I looked at the MSDS for this cleaner and it might work well on Bakelite. Try a bit on the inside of one of the caps to see what happens.

It seems to be a mixture of solvents, it is said to be a cleaner for wood and leather. It does not have a grit element as in Brasso.

So, first try it with a cotton patch to see what happens (the cloth may turn yellow which is typical of solvent on Bakelite) and then use it with 0000 steel wool (the abrasive for the solvents). When using steel wool, don't press real hard as that could take off any shine that may be present. If the Bakelite is dull, it  may begin to show a semigloss shine.

Post before and after pictures.

Phonatic

Thank you kindly for the input.  I will post before/after pics as requested. 
Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

Phonatic

Here we go.  I've learned one is never too old to be a novice . . . or an idiot.  As one can see in pic #1, that is clearly a can of Nevr-Dull and not Kotton Klenser.  I searched high and low and could not find the KK, but did locate the Nevr-Dull under the sink.  I thought, "Why not?" 

Pic #1 is the phone prior to using the product on it.  Pic #2 is after using the Nevr-Dull, and pic #3 is after application of Novus #2 and polishing.  Also in the picture is the very dirty subset that came with the phone.  Further along, I'll work on wiring the phone to it.  I was surprised to find the neat little schematic folded and tucked near the switchhook assembly inside the phone.  No bells or condenser, etc., inside the set, as would be expected, since I suspect the subset is original to the phone. 

This will be a redo, I think, as the Nevr-Dull didn't really get all the thousand-year nicotine stains and dirt off the phone.  When polishing with the Novus, I was still getting areas of dirt off the phone.  Live and learn!
Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

TelePlay

Nevr-Dull is sold as a metal polish, a solvent mixture on cotton pads.

It contains ammonium hydroxide and a few petroleum solvents. While I read it is a 60 grit metal polish, I don't know how abrasive the solvent soaked cloth pads really are.

Brasso is used with 0000 steel wool on Bakelite. That's my only experience.

Novus 2 is a plastic polish that works well to make still shiny Bakelite really shine. It's not really a cleaner and won't do much to improve the shine on dull Bakelite.

I've never used Nevr-Dull so don't know the physical properties of the mixture or the cloth patches it comes with.

When it comes to Bakelite, a really hard material, anything you find that works well for you, achieves your expectations, is just fine for you.

While sanding, sandpaper will further dull Bakelite, ruin the surface, liquid polishes on 0000 steel wool usually cleans and slightly improves the surface "shine."

Attached is the MSDS component sheet for Nevr-Dull.


Phonatic

#5
Quote from: TelePlay on January 15, 2025, 06:45:27 PM"Nevr-Dull is sold as a metal polish, a solvent mixture on cotton pads.

It contains ammonium hydroxide and a few petroleum solvents. While I read it is a 60 grit metal polish, I don't know how abrasive the solvent soaked cloth pads really are."

The can contains something akin to a cotton batting from which you pull off pieces to work with.  I've never used Brasso with 0000 steel wool, but am wanting to try that next.

Thank you for the chemical breakdown of the product and for the advice!

Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

HarrySmith

I use Nevr-Dull regularly on metal. Never tried it on Bakelite but I will in the future. I learned about it in the Navy. We used it on the ship to polish brass. It works really well on brass!
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Phonatic

A forum member messaged me saying he believed that the ringer box pictured with the Kellogg 900 is only a ringer and there is no network inside for the phone itself.  I tried to respond to him with pictures, but apparently pics can't be attached to private messages without a posting URL, unlike just dragging and dropping like we can with a forum post.

Here are front and back images, and to my eye there appears to be both a condenser and a coil.  So, were these only for the ringer itself and not a network for the phone, as with other subsets? 

Forgive my ignorance.  While I have been "into" phones for years, my interests are broad and I never really got into the wiring and electrical properties of the instruments.

Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

HarrySmith

He may be correct. Can you open it up and add some pictures of the inside?
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

TelePlay

That may be a complete subset, that needs a good cleaning.

How many wires coming out of the condenser, 2 or 4?

Do you have a DVM that measures capacitance to get the value(s) of the condenser?

You can also use the DVM to check the continuity of the ringer coils and get the resistance of the ringer coils.

The coil should be good but you could also check its continuity with the DVM.

Phonatic

Completely agree about cleaning; it's pretty filthy.  I do not have a DVM.  I will say, however, that there was a modular line cord attached to the thing (separate from the telephone), which I plugged in and called the line.  It rang well with a very pleasing tone.

The mounting cord on the phone itself is a 3-conductor.  Would this indicate sidetone wiring?

I am learning so much from being a member on the forum.  And, there is SO much more to learn . . .  I appreciate everyone's help.
Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."

TelePlay

Quote from: Phonatic on January 16, 2025, 05:50:40 PMThe mounting cord on the phone itself is a 3-conductor.  Would this indicate sidetone wiring?

Yes. Sidetone vs Anti-sidetone is a 2 part situation. Sidetone uses a 3 conductor mounting cord. Anti-sidetone a 4 conductor cord. The Anti-Sidetone desk set has an extra leaf switch in the hook switch and a coil in the subset which has a connection point to make Anti-Sidetone functional.

You will find older Sidetone subsets that have been upgraded to Anti-Sidetone by replacing the original tube style coil with an Anti-Sidetone capable 101A induction coil.

Phonatic

Quote from: HarrySmith on January 16, 2025, 04:45:30 PMHe may be correct. Can you open it up and add some pictures of the inside?

Phonatic . . . you know, like "lunatic."