Latest purchase a SC candle with sub box. 1156 yb I think
Don't know anything about SC sticks.
need help gettin the bottom off. :(
There are 2 springs mounted to the plate with hooks at the end, and they lock into the base part.
I can't figure out how to remove it. ???
It needs a lot of tlc, and the xmitter will need to be re nickled, but I like restoring these things.
The dial is smaller than most I have seen.
Any info would be absorbed gratefully.
Rod ...the dial is a North and SC used North dials on their early. That is a really nice find.....Doug
A full view photo of the phone would be nice to see.
Thanks Doug.
Will be a nice project.
I will post some pics tomorrow.
The base plate should twist off.
Ok, a couple pics of the phone.
It has a nut on it when turned, loosens/ tightens ball to hold the transmitter in position.
gonna try the twist thing tonite.
Thanks poplar1!
Gonna need another spit cup, as this one has a chunk broken out of it.
What a great addition. Like it!
Until you source another, you should be able to tidy up the damage to the mouthpiece.
Clean up the Bakelite and then look through one of the restoration threads on here to see which method you prefer.
Here is one of my repairs, just as an example of the product 'Milliput'.
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=20874
:)
got the dial out, apart, mostly, and cleaned.
seems to work ok after a bit of oil...
big difference in looks already!
Update.
The North dial could not be saved. Major bummer!!!! :( :( :(
That is what caught my eye when I first saw it!
I found this AE 60-c Dial, and it lines up with the mounting holes.
So...new plan.
Since I can't find another North Dial, It will be an AE 60-c. For now anyway.
Can anybody tell me what politically correct Dials were used by SC on these phones?
Rod....did you try Steve Hilsz, he is the Dial King of Az. ...Doug
Quote from: RB on February 13, 2021, 05:54:08 PM
Update.
The North dial could not be saved. Major bummer!!!! :( :( :(
That is what caught my eye when I first saw it!
I found this AE 60-c Dial, and it lines up with the mounting holes.
So...new plan.
Since I can't find another North Dial, It will be an AE 60-c. For now anyway.
Can anybody tell me what politically correct Dials were used by SC on these phones?
What's wrong with the dial? Perhaps it can be fixed - there are a lot of broken North dials around to use for parts.
They used mostly North and AE. 60-C is not a dial type so I don't know which AE dial you have.
Here is some catalogue information (first image). There are two AE dials listed - both seem to be Type 24 but with different ON contact configurations.
Earlier on, they also used Mercedes dials and Type 23 dials (second image). I have also included some earlier catalogue information showing these earlier dials (third and fourth images).
Edit:
Mostly North and AE dials but as you can see from the images, also WE (No 2), Kellogg (No 1) and NE (No 1 - N Type).
Regards
Jack
Doug,
Steve declared it dead on the table :(
He warned me before I sent it, we were both hopeful.
The problem lies with the ratchet gear, and is intermittent.
So, I guess it is the main shaft/ratchet assy relationship, that is worn out. :( :(
That is pretty much the whole dial.
If someone has one with a ticket I can live with, I would consider that too. ;)
Jack
Thank you.
As stated, my dial is kaput.
The AE I have, has a PB2, and the 60-c painted on in red.
Thats all I can find other than the AE inside the diamond raised logo stuff.
It "seems", watch my wording, to be a common switch config.
I have seen this config, on various dials.
5 Blades. 2 for pulse, "often jumped to inner blade of 3 blade progressive stack".
Stack lies open at rest, and outer blade descends onto mid blade, in off rest position,
and mid blade surrendering to the weight of the outer blade, descends down to blade 3
The short the receiver first then connect the transmitter thing, ??? is that right?
Anyway, I believe I could use diagram 2, or 4, with this dial.
I will look into the, 6 is it? options you gave me.
I no nothing about any of those yet.
And I have been trying to get a handle on dials for a while now!
What is the 411 on these MERCEDES dials???
These are all new assignments to look into.
Thank you again.
got another wrinkle or two today ;D
Quote from: RB on February 13, 2021, 09:03:43 PM
Jack
The AE I have, has a PB2, and the 60-c painted on in red.
The printed stuff is mostly manufacturing or refurbishment dates. AE doesn't put IDs on dials.
Quote
Thats all I can find other than the AE inside the diamond raised logo stuff.
So it's not a Type 24 then. The logo changed at the time the 24A36 was released so it is that or later.
Quote
It "seems", watch my wording, to be a common switch config.
I have seen this config, on various dials.
5 Blades. 2 for pulse, "often jumped to inner blade of 3 blade progressive stack".
Stack lies open at rest, and outer blade descends onto mid blade, in off rest position,
and mid blade surrendering to the weight of the outer blade, descends down to blade 3
The short the receiver first then connect the transmitter thing, ??? is that right?
Anyway, I believe I could use diagram 2, or 4, with this dial.
I will look into the, 6 is it? options you gave me.
Sorry, overload - I need a picture of the rear of your dial.
The left hand end of the first set of diagrams shows the common AE dial as used on most AE telephones. I have attached a Phillips (Canadian) example.
Quote
I no nothing about any of those yet.
And I have been trying to get a handle on dials for a while now!
Of the dials shown in the diagrams:
- the WE No 2 is easy to get but a bit expensive
- the North dial is getting hard to find and some are broken (?!)
- the Northern (N) dial is very hard to get and very expensive
- the AE Mercedes dial is getting hard to get and the price is rising
- the Kellogg dial is at least as hard to get as the Mercedes dial and at least as expensive
So, realistically, you are looking for an AE Type 24, 24A36, 51 or 51A - they are easier to find and cheaper as the type number increases.
Quote
What is the 411 on these MERCEDES dials???
That is an American expression which, I believe, is asking for information.
What particular information are you looking for?
Regards
Jack
Jack
Here you go.
The information on Mercedes dials I seek, is general
1. Size compared to an AE dial...
2. Were they designed anything like the North, or something similar?
3. Long Lasting, or easily worn out?
Starting from nothing, any info will help me understand.
My AE dial configuration, is exactly like yours.
except that the switches are mounted on risers, not flat on a removable plate.
If I can't find a 24, or 51 type, I will use this one.
Unless, this IS a 24, or 51 type???
That would be nice!, actually having the right part to work with.
Quote from: RB on February 14, 2021, 06:21:50 AM
1. Size compared to an AE dial...
Type 24 and later dials have a diameter of 3" - the standard US dial size. The Mercedes dial and the Type 23 dial are smaller, about 2 3/4".
In addition, they are constructed differently. The 24 and later all look similar to your dial. The Mercedes and Type 23 don't have the cylindrical case and mount differently.
Quote
2. Were they designed anything like the North, or something similar?
AE invented the dial and subsequent dials, from AE and everyone else, were based on AE's patents. Having said that, there are a lot of mechanical differences between AE's dials and North's dials.
Quote
3. Long Lasting, or easily worn out?
The Mercedes dial was only the second generation of small dial (after the large 11 digit dials) and because of that, they were less refined than later dials. Mercedes dials, particularly the first generation of Mercedes dials, were hard to adjust and did wear. There were three generations of Mercedes dials, what I call the Type 11 (unofficial), the Type 18 (unofficial) and the Type 23. The Type 23 was the best of them but it didn't have the "Mercedes" retainer.
Quote
My AE dial configuration, is exactly like yours.
except that the switches are mounted on risers, not flat on a removable plate.
If I can't find a 24, or 51 type, I will use this one.
Unless, this IS a 24, or 51 type???
You
almost got a picture of the contacts - I can't quite see if they are bifurcated (have split ends). I think they do so your dial is a Type 51A. It was the first dial used on the AE 80.
Pictures of Type 18 Mercedes.
Regards
Jack
Jack.
Here are a couple more pics of the dial.
I am worried, tho, that it may not have split ends, and won't indeed be a 51???
hears hoping!
Quote from: RB on February 14, 2021, 09:38:41 AM
Jack.
Here are a couple more pics of the dial.
I am worried, tho, that it may not have split ends, and won't indeed be a 51???
hears hoping!
It is a Type 51 (no split ends) not a Type 51A (split ends). Otherwise they are identical.
Jack
Quote from: Jack Ryan on February 14, 2021, 05:46:19 PM
It is a Type 51 (no split ends) not a Type 51A (split ends). Otherwise they are identical.
Jack
I understand the difference.
I don't understand the reason for the difference.
My best guess is for a redundant path for quality purposes ?
Comments?
Quote from: Jim Stettler on February 14, 2021, 06:54:53 PM
I understand the difference.
I don't understand the reason for the difference.
My best guess is for a redundant path for quality purposes ?
Comments?
It halves the probability of a dirty contact fault. In addition to the bifurcated contacts, the contacts are designed to "wipe" each other as they make and break contact. This helps to clean the contacts. Hook switch contacts followed suit.
Also, Bell used bifurcated contacts on the 500 dial so AE had to remove that as a selling point for Bell.
Regards
Jack
Edit:
It halves the probability of a dirty contact fault.Of course that isn't correct. If the probability of a single contact failure is Sp, then the probability of the pair failing, Pp is:
Pp = Ps
and Ps = Ps x Ps = Ps^2
So the probability of a contact fault is
much less when bifurcated contacts are used.
Sorry about that.
Jack
That makes sense, thanks for explaining.
Jim
Ok, got the dial squared away. :)
A new number plate and a new finger wheel are on the way.
The next step was getting the nut off the bottom.
I inquired in another post, I will try to stay with this one for the remainder of the project.
It was suggested that I remove the transmitter and the wires, I did.
and soak in oil, and hit it with a chisel...the nut...
It came off!!!
Now, I gotta find a plater and get the top parts re nickled.
Brass is showin through everywhere.
Next question:
How do I dis assemble the transmitter without damaging the button?
Never done one before...
Great thread if you are restoring this type of candlestick. RB or anyone: does anyone know if this SC stick model (986 or 1150?) uses the same base for it's dial version as did the little bit later SC 1178 pictured? I am shopping for a dial base for my SC 986 candlestick that accommodates a North dial like RB is working on and am wondering if 1178 base parts would work. So far alot of 'dial 986 sticks' I have found on-line have newish AE dials on repro WE bases. thanks JC
Quote from: allnumbedup on February 21, 2021, 12:49:50 PM
Great thread if you are restoring this type of candlestick. RB or anyone: does anyone know if this SC stick model (986 or 1150?) uses the same base for it's dial version as did the little bit later SC 1178 pictured? I am shopping for a dial base for my SC 986 candlestick that accommodates a North dial like RB is working on and am wondering if 1178 base parts would work. So far alot of 'dial 986 sticks' I have found on-line have newish AE dials on repro WE bases. thanks JC
One of my favorite Phones, SCs first handset...sometime called by collectors the SC A1. SC did not make dials yet, so they used Norths....just a stunning set. Nice careful restoration as well. Beautiful....Doug
doug not trying to get off topic on RB's phone and this is a picture /not my phone. but I agree with you. JC
Update.
Painted the edge of the dial, installed new number plate.
Waitin on chrome finger wheel.
That will look nice! ;)
I got a different transmitter cup, not so worn off.
It will be installed.
The next part, the base.
Most of the shiny stuff is worn off, leaving a dull finish.
So, I will be repainting that.
Tried to polish it, but no go.
Just can't stand to see bad finish.
It is hard to tell from pics, but it is pretty tired lookin.
comments welcome.
update:
Got the base and tube painted and reassembled.
put the dial in it, then when I was lookin it over, noticed all the pics in the schematic, are useing a single pole double throw switch config.
My 51 dial, has a progressive switch...
now how am I gonna have to rewire this thing to get that to work?
The transmitter and hook parts are at the platers.
should hear something on Monday.
Gotta figure out how to wire this dial.
Nice job painting, it came out well.
I don't know much about candle sticks, but there will be someone who does at some point.
Thumbs up!
Quote from: RB on March 21, 2021, 03:03:49 PM
update:
Got the base and tube painted and reassembled.
put the dial in it, then when I was lookin it over, noticed all the pics in the schematic, are useing a single pole double throw switch config.
My 51 dial, has a progressive switch...
now how am I gonna have to rewire this thing to get that to work?
The transmitter and hook parts are at the platers.
should hear something on Monday.
Gotta figure out how to wire this dial.
nice job Rod....you done good. I am not a painter....you are...Doug
Update:
Parts back from plater, and mostly installed.
They look Sweeeeeeeet!
Hardest part is keeping from dinging it just trying to reassemble it!
Already got a couple scuffs...arg...deep breath...movin on.
Went together pretty smooth.
The sub cord is a really nice, could be Norwegian type??? can't remember where I got it.
Some of those phones had 5 and 6 wire cords. And they are made very well.
This one has 5, I needed 3. overkill, and like 10' long, but looks nice!
Need to buff the Rec yet, and get the right parts to install the Transmitter.
I need to know what size gasket, or gaskets I need.
Seen a couple on ebay, but not spec, SC, so don't know.
Rod....looking good my friend!
Thanks, Doug.
This is a fun build.
Lookin forward to hearing voices on this phone.
Not just in my head. lol.
update:
Got the parts back, and assembled.
Besides the little scratches that I caused, looks pretty good.
Next, I gotta troubleshoot the wiring...
I get nuthin when connected to my 616... no sound, can't dial out.
only get short burst of ring, then nuthin, and then I get a busy signal from the calling ext.
I suspect the cap in ring circuit is too small???
Looks great! Good work, Congrats!
Do you mind sharing where you had the plating done and the cost? How many pieces were done?
A handsome piece.
Questions as per Harry please, and could you tell us what prep work you needed to do for the plater, or did they take care of all that too.
:)
Plating was $108.00
7 pieces total.
The place...
http://www.noles-davis.com/
said they have been plating for 30 something years.
They ship, too.
Very happy with the turn out!!!
I cleaned the worst parts with a wire brush, they do the cleaning bath before plating.
Thanks for posting that info.
Would you or a mod add it to our vendors list for future reference?
will hafta be a mod...
Rod has no clue how.