Antique Telephone candlestick with unusual transmitter face Ebay# 271404276301

[rfkimba]

http://tinyurl.com/l3bgk9s

Gentlemen,
I studied Sargeguys tutorial dated 4/9/12 on WE transmittter numbers and have concluded the transmitter is not WE. Can anyone ID it? Base is WE.
Thanks,
Bob Farber

[G-Man]

Possibly manufactured by Western Electric for The Western Telephone and Telegraph Company, an operating company.

Whatever company manufactured it  most likely affixed a custom property nameplate for the customer.



THE BELL COMPANY'S FINANCIAL STATEMENT

IN connection with the sale of bonds of the American Telephone and Telegraph Company to Kidder Peabody & Co of Boston the proceeds of which are to pay for the controlling interest of the Erie Company President Fish has given out the following letter which shows the present capitalization of the parent and the subsidiary companies American Telephone and Telegraph Company Boston January 25 1902 Messrs Kidder Peabody & Company Boston Massachusetts

Dear Sirs Referring to the $13,000,000 Collateral Trust Four Per Cent Bonds which you have just bought of this Company I beg to make the following statement The American Telephone and Telegraph Company is the successor of the American Bell Telephone Company having acquired at the close of the year 1899 all the assets of that company.

The American Telephone and Telegraph Company owns the so called long distance telephone lines throughout the United States. These bonds are issued to provide the money necessary to pay for the controlling interest which this Company has this day acquired in the Western Telephone and Telegraph Company successor to the Erie Telegraph and Telephone Company which company has to day had $6,000,000 cash paid into its treasury to pay for much needed extensions and improvements

[Sargeguy]

Western Telephone Construction Company was a manufacturer based in Chicago.  Their products are often mis-identified as Western Electric, and their transmitters find their way onto candlesticks.  .

[G-Man]

Sargeguy, doesn't it read "Western Telephone and Telegraph Company 155" on the plate affixed to this transmitter?   If so then it is a company associated with AT&T and not Western Telephone Construction.   Thanks

[poplar1]

G-man is correct:

[Sargeguy]

G-man is correct:

Wait, did I just get the two of you to agree on something? 

I apologize, this is what happens when I try to surf the web on my phone without my glasses.

[Sargeguy]

There was also a Canada Western Telephone and Telegraph Company, but the AT&T subsidary seems more likely. 

Here is a timeline of the company from Google sources:

AT&T acquired the assets of the Erie Telegraph & Telephone Company in late 1901 and re-organized it as the Western Telephone and Telegraph Company in January of 1902.  The new company was named Western Telephone & Telegraph Company.  It was formed as a holding company, not an operating company, and held the stock of four smaller operating companies/Bell subsidiaries:  The Cleveland Telephone Company, The Northwestern Telephone Exchange Co, The Southwestern Telegraph and Telephone Co, and the Wisconsin Telephone and Telegraph Co.   These companies in turn controlled smaller local Bell licensees.  WT&T itself owned no lines or exchanges.  It shared a headquarters and board of directors with AT&T.  The only references I can find to it are related to its stocks and bonds.  See below:

The Directory of Directors in the City of Boston and Vicinity, 1908

WARE, CHARLES P., 119 Milk Street.  American Telephone & Telegraph Company, Vice-President.  Western Telephone & Telegraph Company, Vice-President.

AMERICAN TELEPHONE & TELEGRAPH COMPANY, 185 Milk Street, Boston. Incorporated under laws of New York. Capital stock authorized, $250,000,000, issued, $179,638,400. President, T. N. Vail; Vice-Presidents, E. J. Hall (New York), Thomas Sherwin, C. P. Ware; Treasurer, W. R. Driver; Secretary, C. E. Hubbard; Directors: President, Secretary, and G. F. Baker, J. I. Waterbury (both of New York), W. M. Crane (Dalton, Mass.), Thomas Sanders (Haverhill, Mass.), C. W. Amory, Francis Blake, T. J. Coolidge, Jr., Moses Williams, Alexander Cochrane, H. S. Howe. Nathaniel Thayer, W. L. Putnam, T. B. Bailey, S. L. Schoonmaker (New York).

WESTERN TELEPHONE AND TELEGRAPH COMPANY, 185 Milk Street, Boston. (Controlled by American Telephone & Telegraph Company.)  Incorporated under laws of New Jersey. Capital stock authorized and issued, $32,000,000 President, T. N. Vale; Vice-Presidents, C. P. Ware, E. J. Hall (New York) ; Treasurer, W. R. Driver; Secretary, C. A. Grant; Directors: President, and C. W. Amory, T. J. Coolidge, Jr., Philip Dexter, H. S. Howe, Robert Winsor, W. M. Crane (Dalton, Mass.), William Endicott, Jr.

In 1911 they were abolished and absorbed into AT&T.  Telephony July 1911 writes:

In all there were about twenty two Bell subsidiary companies, including those controlled by the Western Telephone and Telegraph Company, that financial anomaly-a holding company within a holding company-which will further complicate the situation

This begs the question of why a holding company would have it's own marked equipment. 

[poplar1]

This begs the question of why a holding company would have it's own marked equipment. 

And yet 337 transmitters are often marked "Property of AT&T"---a holding company.

[Sargeguy]

Yes but AT&T was also an operating company that had it"s own lines, equipment and employees.  Also, AT&T marked transmitters showed up around 15 years after this was made,  WT&T didn't seem to even have it's own employees, and it's headquarters was probably located in a filing cabinet in AT&Ts Boston office. At the time both the American Bell Telephone Co and Western Telephone Company were two of the largest entities (in terms of capital) controlled by AT&T.   

My guess is that there was a need at some point to make a distinction between ABT and WT&T.  This period in which the WT&T Co existed coincides almost exactly with the Presidency of Theodore Roosevelt.  Teddy Roosevelt is famous for his campaign of "trust busting" in which large conglomerates that had a monopoly in different industries were broken up.  There was plenty of heat on AT&T at the time, and scrutiny of their holdings.  Maybe the directors of the Bell System felt the need to demonstrate that WT&T was more than just a "dummy" corporation, that it was a legitimate phone company.  I know that this phone has an ABT marked cup, but that appears to be later than the transmitter.  The "drawn perch" desk stand was patented in 1913, a couple years after WT&T ceased to exist.  The cup has no hole whereas this is most likely an un-insulated transmitter, judging from the style.  That could mean that it was once on a wall phone, but it is brassed out and looks notched, so I think this is something of a Frankenphone. 

[poplar1]

As for AT&T owning the phones: Western Electric sold to the associated companies, who then owned the phones. WE repair shops refurbished Bell-owned phones that were often then marked "Tel. Co. Property." AT&T owned all or part of the 22 associated companies, but did not directly own the phones. In fact, leased phones were still owned by the Bell companies until 1-1-84, at which time any leases were taken over by AT&T.

[Sargeguy]

Did WE just stamp "Property of AT&T" on transmitters and receivers because it was easier than putting individual names on the equipment?

About the time the transmitter in question was made New England Telephone and Telegraph  and Southern Massachusetts Telephone Company were stamping their wooden equipment with their names.  They were both subsidiaries of the American Bell Telephone Company, which was in turn a subsidiary of AT&T.  Phones stamped with these companies names may or may not also carry the ABT markings.  Yet you do not see AT&T marked phones during the early 1900s. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=OKDNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA4&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U0rekGd8XYYNnhkejF0iRy5NVhI6g&ci=169%2C202%2C692%2C328&edge=0

Western Telephone & Telegraph was not a subsidiary of the American Bell Telephone Company, so perhaps the phones they controlled were not marked "PROPERTY OF AMERICAN BELL TELEPHONE COMPANY" and used WT&T markings  on transmitters as an alternative.  This was probably done in a limited quantity since they don't appear to be very common.

[Sargeguy]

Here are some pics of the transmitter, which arrived today (mailed on Saturday in AZ!).  As you can see it is an early type, it has the "7" stamped on the back of the plunger.  It also has an old-looking spade connector hooked to one of the springs as a ground, and a really old-looking pin connector that was attached to the carbon block.