News:

"The phone is a remarkably complex, simple device,
and very rarely ever needs repairs, once you fix them." - Dan/Panther

Main Menu

Western Electric/ABT Co #10 candlestick in black

Started by Sargeguy, January 04, 2020, 08:10:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Sargeguy

Just acquired this Western Electric #10 candlestick in original blavk/japanned finish.  True black #10s are rare.  Most are painted over nickel.  Many others are not American Bell issue.  This one has a pretty reliable provenance-it is ex-New Jersey Pioneers Museum.

The phone is in nice shape (after I straightened the bent hook).  It has an original rattlesnake cord w/"Z" marked receiver.  The finish is 99% intact. 
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Sargeguy

Here are some more shots.  #10s can be tricky to differentiate from other "oil cans".  One way is a "10" stamped on the terminal strip in the base (although not all #10s have this feature).  Other #10s will be stamped on the side (not the back) of the perch.  Later #10s have a two hole base and a cast shaft bolt as found in a TYPE 22/early 20-B candlestick. 
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

shadow67

Very nice phone. I have a couple questions. What was the date range for this phone? Also, would this phone have had a knurled nut instead of a screw on the back of the cup when it was new? Thanks

Pourme

~

Sargeguy, truly a beautiful rare stick. I've never seen one of those, much less held one. Congratulations on owning that. Just curious, how would one know what is under the paint without damaging the paint to look? Does it appear differently textured over metal vs plate?
Benny

Panasonic 308/616 Magicjack service

Desert Phone Guy

A good way to tell is looking under the base where the red fibre terminal is.  If the base metal shows brass, then it is an original black 10.  If nickel shows underneath, then it is a repainted nickel set.


Pourme

Alright, so nickle is plated on the inside of the phone as well....I didn't know

Thanks!
Benny

Panasonic 308/616 Magicjack service

Sargeguy

There are some small chips in the japan finish that shows brass, not nickel. Black #10s did not have knurled nuts, based on examples other collectors have.  Also, a japan finish is different than enamel paint. It has a different feel.

Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Jack Ryan

Quote from: Sargeguy on January 09, 2020, 08:48:06 PM
There are some small chips in the japan finish that shows brass, not nickel. Black #10s did not have knurled nuts, based on examples other collectors have.  Also, a japan finish is different than enamel paint. It has a different feel.

As a matter of interest, why would a black No 10 not have a knurled nut? The nickel plated and black models were (I thought) identical except for the finish.

Who knows what has happened over the last 100 years. Here are two examples:

Thanks
Jack


Sargeguy

I don't know.  Two other collectors have phones identical to mine (two tone, no knurled nut, *229*) The transmitter cups have no patent dates so they are likely later than the rest of the phone.  This came from a Pioneer museum so it is probably some type of old stock.
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Sargeguy

Also, it is likely these were being phased out as more modern sticks were phased in.  We can't be sure how late these were still being issued (at a discount, no doubt).
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Jack Ryan

Quote from: Sargeguy on January 10, 2020, 08:35:44 PM
I don't know.  Two other collectors have phones identical to mine (two tone, no knurled nut, *229*)

I don't have either phone but from published pictures, at least some do have knurled nuts so they cancel out and we return the the question - why would they be different?


Quote
This came from a Pioneer museum so it is probably some type of old stock.

Probably, possibly or maybe?

Unfortunately the rear of the transmitter is not a common contemporary shot but I would be cautious about drawing conclusions from 100+ year old evidence when other 100+ year old evidence contradicts it. We can't even be sure of how old the evidence is.

It's a shame the manufacturers didn't consider telephone collectors and historians and document things better.

Regards
Jack





Payphone installer

I remember seeing one purchased for 80 bucks back in the 90's. I am also aware that black ones were plated by collectors. Keep in mine Telephone collecting is not new very few items have not been messed with. I think a item from pioneers probably has a very high probably of being as accurate as any phone anywhere. I bought many A-1 cradles that were off desk phones that were trashed because you could not sell a A-1 for as much as a dial stick ,so they converted them. Hundreds of them. These cradles were converted back using plungers out of Belgium phones and repro bases. I know that because I made some. They were sold at Phone shows for around 250.00 each. Where do you think they are today?

Doug Rose

I have never seen a #10 with an oil can base like the SC. My #10 has 10 on the back of the stem. I never even tried to do anything to it. Just wiped it down, too afraid I would damage it. I had no idea what I had until I got home and saw my other sticks. I just knew it was different. This was before the Internet and I was a newbie. $200 at the Marshfield FairGrounds that had a HUGE Flea Market about 25 years ago. I had to find an ATM as back then phones were usually $10 a piece. I left my friend holding the stick while I went to the ATM. I said do not let go of this until I get back!!

I saw a Black #10 at Brimfield that Roy B from the ATCA had with him. He explained the difference to me on if you saw nickel, it was painted. It was $1500 and I could not justify paying that as I had my #10. Janet actually wanted me to get it!....Doug
Kidphone

FABphones

Bumping this thread as it is SO nice a phone/s and interesting thread.

My passion is Candlesticks. We need a 'drool' emoji.

Thanks for sharing Sargeguy.

:)
A collector of  'Monochrome Phones with Sepia Tones'   ...and a Duck!
***********
Vintage Phones - 10% man made, 90% Tribble
*************