Black WE 20-B

[HowardPgh]

Markings around the base of the shaft Western Electric Company  
                                                                            Pat Appd For
                                                                            Pat In USA Aug 16 04  Sept 13 04
Back of perch has Patented 16 1904 20-B (B looks struck out)
Cup has Property of the American Bell Telephone Company
Patented - July 9,89, Nov 17,91, Nov 1,92.
Notice the odd looking hookswitch.

Happy Holiday Howard

[Sargeguy]

I split this from Doug's Nickel 20-B post and moved them both to Candlesticks.

Howard are there any markings on the front of the perch?  If the 20-B has been obliterated then there should be a new mark on the front, probably 20-AL.  It has obviously been repainted from the original nickel.  It has the green base and cords that are found on nickel sticks (black sticks have brown cords issued with them).  The *229* is correct for the phone, and consistent with the other ABT markings.  That is a "drop" type hook that is found on some WE candlesticks.  It was either for a long pole receiver or for heavy duty applications depending upon who you ask.  Definitely an all original 20-B that was re-purposed at a later date.  Normally nickel parts that have been repainted black aren't worth as much as original nickel or black over brass, but I think in this case I'd make an exception based upon the context.  An excellent find.  What is the story on how you acquired it?    

[sebbel]

That is a beautiful phone. I'm a sucker for candlesticks and I can't wait for the day I'll get my hands on one with outside wires!

[dencins]

Howard are there any markings on the front of the perch?  If the 20-B has been obliterated then there should be a new mark on the front, probably 20-AL.

When 20-B were converted to 20AL it was changed from uninsulated to insulated.  This one is still uninsulated.  The 229 would be something like a 337 on a 20AL.  What I have found on 20-B converted to 20AL:

1.  Insulated transmitter like a 337
2.  Back cup replaced with one without a hole and transmitter wires feed through perch to transmitter
3.  Extra terminals added to the switch (6 total)
4.  Insulated switch hook
5.  Knurled nut replaced with slotted screw mounting bolt
6.  Painted black

I have seen the 20AL stamped on the front of the perch.  I have also seen it on the side of the perch under the washer for the mounting bolt.

I do not know why the "B" was X'd out but it was not to make a 20AL.

Dennis Hallworth

[Sargeguy]

I think 20-ALs  or any phone from the 20-XX series, were available with the option of older transmitters and receivers for a discount .  So a 20-Al may have a 229 or 122, but a 20-B would not have an insulated transmitter (officially that is).  And you also had the option of buying the deskstand without transmitters or receivers, but that would bot explain the green base.

[HowardPgh]

Sargeguy-
I bought the phone at a small antique store about 35 years ago.  The numbercard says GLenshaw, and that was where the antique store was.
At that time Glenshaw PA was out in the country, now it is developed suburbia.
It looked the same as the picture, I did nothing to it.
Howard

[Sargeguy]

Are there any stamps on the front of the perch?

[poplar1]

Might it be a 20-B converted to a 20-S?

[Sargeguy]

That's what I was thinking, but why convert it to something that is electronically identical?  Just for the color?  Then why leave the nickel parts and green cordage and base?  My other theory is that it was recycled into an Interphone.  The 1916 catalog mentions that older models were available at a discount for Interphone service.  Maybe the nickel plating was worn on the shaft, so they repainted it black after x-ing out the B.

[poplar1]

Not sure that the cords should be brown just because the phone is black enamel instead of nickel plated.

WE Catalog #2 (1908):

Page 27:


1020-S
Description
For regular local battery bridging or
central battery service.
Includes: 1 No. 20-S desk stand.
1 No. 229-W transmitter.
1 No. 122-W receiver.
1 No. 234 cord.

[234 combination= 3 green cords---See below]



1020-B= 1 20-B desk stand
              1 229-W transmitter
              1 122-W receiver
              1 No. 234 cord

Page 23:

234= Combination 1 6' 231 cord, 1 3' 278 cord, 1 8" 179 cord---Nos. 1020-B, 1020-M 
         and 1020-S desk stands
         

178= 2 conductor tinsel cord, green silk and cotton--receiver on desk stand
         or  transmitter arm

Page 28

"without transmitter, receiver or cords"==20-B, 20-C, etc.

EDIT: The catalog does refer to new sets sold outside the Bell System. So the conversion if any and updates in the field or shop may have changed what was originally on it. However, the point I was making is that green cords are not out of place on a black phone, and in fact, there were apparently no brown cords at all in 1908.

[HowardPgh]

There is nothing stamped on the front of the perch and the B of 20 B has a / mark through it.  I don't see any evidence of any other letter. 
Howard

[poplar1]

Howard, is Glenshaw, PA, in Bell Territory?

[Sargeguy]

The cup has the ABT markings and the transmitter is *229*.  I'm sticking with the Interphone partial re-paint theory.

[poplar1]

Point taken about the ABT cup and the *229.*

Without the cord to the subset, I don't know how to tell a 1020-H from a 1020-B.  Both were nickel originally. The 1020-B had a 3-conductor green cord and the 1020-H had a 6-conductor green cord. Neither was painted black like this one.

Don't the intercommunicating phones require an additional set of contacts to silence the bell when you go off-hook? If so, that would be one reason for needing additional conductors.

The 20-H cost $2.50 and the 20-B and 20-S  $2.25, so there must have been some difference in the hookswitch.

[Sargeguy]

I guess we'd need to see the switch plate.