Restoring a WE Dial Plate?

[RDPipes]

Has anyone developed a way to restore a WE dial plate WITHOUT a funky laminate.
We all know the RED numbers rub off after time and the way I'm thinking is there's
gotta be a way to paint them back on with a stencil or by hand, etc. so that it not
only looks original but will adhere to the porcelain/baked Enamel at least as good as it
did originally. I know there's people out there that restored pottery, china and porcelain
vases and such and they hand paint all the repair. Anything like this happening out there
with these dial plates?

[HarrySmith]

Nothing as far as I know. At one point I contacted a few places that restore porcelain signs but they all said they could not do the dial plates. If it can be done it would be a great help to the collecting community and a good business!

[RDPipes]

It certainly would sir, I'm going to do some research on this, it just can't be that hard to do.

[MMikeJBenN27]

It certainly would sir, I'm going to do some research on this, it just can't be that hard to do.

They probably don't think that making and storing the stencils would be worth their time, and painting them free-hand will not be good enough.  Maybe somebody who does that kind of work and is also a phone collector will see this and make a stencil!

Mike

[MMikeJBenN27]

Has anyone developed a way to restore a WE dial plate WITHOUT a funky laminate.
We all know the RED numbers rub off after time and the way I'm thinking is there's
gotta be a way to paint them back on with a stencil or by hand, etc...

I would be nice, as I have some with worn-off numbers that I wish could be fixed without a laminate.

Mike

[HarrySmith]

I am sure we all have worn ones!

[countryman]

I found this plate on a Mix & Genest Weltruf:


I suppose that is hand painted in a very artistic way - I can't see how it could be done better. The problem is to paint sharp 90 degree corners like in a printed font.
Not sure stencils would work?
I used a water slide decal in another occasion and I'm happy with the result, but yes, it's a lamination.

[RDPipes]

I've seen people hand paint items specially signs of all sizes with the skill of a printing machine.
Anything can be done if you have the skill and determination sir.

[FABphones]

Just from my experience of stencil making, although possible, the stencil in question would be difficult to cut by hand due to it's small size. A cutter could be used if the correct font (and size) could be found.

An adhesive would be required to help prevent paint bleed. Individual numbers may be difficult to work with and spacing would need to be very precise. Due to the nearness of the numbers an adhesive could cause paint lift on any work already done. If all numbers were on one stencil the surface would need to be flat to prevent stencil lift (and again, paint bleed). The numbering could still be damaged when dialling, even with a clear coat over.

The good news is small cans of enamel paint are cheap and easy to buy, I have a few, and even the smallest cans go a long way.

 

[Etienne]

I don't know if it was the case for phone dials, but watch dials used to be hand-painted (with radium paint... many cancers among the ladies who painted them).
Some companies are still creating enameled signs- perhaps they could create the stencils? or even produce brand-new plates?

[RDPipes]

Just from my experience of stencil making, although possible, the stencil in question would be difficult to cut by hand due to it's small size. A cutter could be used if the correct font (and size) could be found.

An adhesive would be required to help prevent paint bleed. Individual numbers may be difficult to work with and spacing would need to be very precise. Due to the nearness of the numbers an adhesive could cause paint lift on any work already done. If all numbers were on one stencil the surface would need to be flat to prevent stencil lift (and again, paint bleed). The numbering could still be damaged when dialling, even with a clear coat over.

The good news is small cans of enamel paint are cheap and easy to buy, I have a few, and even the smallest cans go a long way.

 

Well lets just say one were to purchase one of the many dial reproduction laminates for let say $4 then use an X-Acto
knife to cut out the number or numbers that are need. Then one has an exact stencil that will adhere to the dial plate in only the places needed. These stencils are made to fit exactly so that problem is solved. And if ones paint is of the right consistency bleeding would not be a factor. I use to be a painter and worked with automotive and painted guitars for Rickenbacker, so I do have a little experience with paint. Now the only problem is getting the paint to stick. You could sand the area lightly but, then after painting the numbers you'd have to clear coat it adding more work and maybe more problems down the road. Like I said, I'll have to research it more to really come up with a workable result.

[FABphones]

...I'll have to research it more to really come up with a workable result.

You can start a new thread to detail your project here:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?board=70.0

Remember, we like pictures!

[RDPipes]

Oh this might be awhile, it's only a theory at the moment but, I am hoping for more.
Being I had to give up my only extra income maker maybe this could help me out a little if I develop a good way.
I mean, how many people would rather have their dial plate restored or purchase a resorted dial plate then
have a sticker.  Although this may only really work well for me if I specialized in "Z" dials and other rarer
ones cause you can purchase most dial plates reasonably but, we are running short of them so at some point it
would at least be a good skill to have in your bag of tricks......so to speak.
 

[TelePlay]

ISTR, topics are on the forum covering this issue, there are 2 types of number plates, celluloid and porcelain.

Porcelain is a vitreous ceramic and the metal number plate first coated with a white powder and heated to about 2,400 degrees F. The cooled white porcelain then has red or black vitreous ceramic powder numbers and/or letters placed on it and again heated to 2,400 degrees to turn that powder to porcelain and meld it into the white base coat.

The final number plate has slightly raised letters and numbers. These wear down over time, many many numbers dialed.

Simple paint, if painstakingly applied, will quickly wear off when dialing.

The "real" fix would be to apply colored vitreous powder to the word numbers and letters and then heated to 2,400 to turn the powder to porcelain and meld it into the existing porcelain - the true permanent fix.

Given that, and realizing the time, difficulty and cost to do that, overlays we're created as the "best reasonable" fix to worn letters and numbers (they don't fade away, the porcelain numbers and letters are worn off with use).

The forum search function for "porcelain number plate restoration" finds much of the above.

Others with knowledge or experience can add to or correct anything above.

Now, IIRC, celluloid is much different in that the numbers and letters are printed on a film which is then covered with a clear layer. The resultant celluloid number plate can not be heated - even low heat of 120 F will literally destroy the celluloid on its metal base plate. The celluloid itself degrades over time and finding a near white base with vibrant letters and numbers is about as hard as finding unobtainium. Celluloid yellows and cracks with age.

Again, add to or correct any of this. I did it from memory having read most of the 5 to 10 year old topics posted by members interested in restoring  metal number plates.

Finally, there was a member, about 5 years ago, came up with very nice repro plates made of plastic, IIRC, and tried to sell them to members but they were quite pricey and nothing came of that offer.

[RDPipes]

Well like I said it was only a theory, but paint products have changed since then also.
Maybe it won't work but, looking at alternatives aint any better. I've seen both the stickers and the Laminated
ones and the numbers are flat and not raised a little like the originals, so back to the drawing board. I think there has got to be away and keep it affordable, I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. But, going by what someone else couldn't do isn't me. I might fail but, it won't be in shame.