Bought my first Kellogg Ashtray, a project phone for $28

[TelePlay]

On the way up to the cabin, stopped into an out of the way antique mall I've had luck at in the future. Spotted this ashtray with some damage around the dial and a slightly cracked handset (on the bottom). There was a bit of rust on the bottom but it didn't look severe. They wanted $28. No damage in the usual, hard to repair curved places so left it there to think about for a few days.

An the way home, stopped in and bought it. Opened it up today. The original pictures are below. Outside looks good and I think repairable, as is the handset.

Then I opened it up and what I saw reminded me that I really should take a screw driver kit with me when shopping for phones.

While the ringer is fine, straight line and works with my ring generator (small clapper ball, no reed and biased to one side = SLR), all of the internals have a fairly good coating of rust. All the parts are there and no rust on anything critical so it may be possible to clean this one up. I hope the induction coil only has surface rust, as with the condenser.

Thought I might have a find of the month candidate here, but then it seems like all I got was a good set of bear teeth in the butt.

Was this a good deal, albeit a bit of a restoration project?

[rdelius]

Looks like a real challange but i repaired worse with Locktite 380 glue and repairs were almost invisible.

[19and41]

You'll have something good there, It'll make you work for it, though.

[unbeldi]

We see again that you like real challenges,  but you do nice work as you did with the AE candlestick.

The bottom says 925 HAS ?  I haven't seen the HAS designation.
Most 925 types came without induction coil and ringer.[PS: may be not]  The catalog shows a 925 BAX though.
That's a 106A induction coil for anti-sidetone circuit.
What kind of ringer is that?  Is it biased?   [PS: doesn't seem to be. A polarized ringer?]


PS: here is the 1941 catalog No. 10 for these:

[TelePlay]

We see again that you like real challenges,  but you do nice work as you did with the AE candlestick..

Yes, and, well, that was not expected. The Bakelite was what  thought the only issue. Oh, well . . .

The bottom says 925 HAS ?  I haven't seen the HAS designation.

It looks like the "S" was added, slightly out of alignment with the HA and a slightly different color than the HA.

The condenser seems to say "K.S. & 8 CO" and below that "1.6 ? 11 ?", image below.

What kind of ringer is that?  Is it biased?   [PS: doesn't seem to be. A polarized ringer?]

Don't know and can not remove the mounting screws, yet (penetrating oil has been applied), so can't see the what's on the back. There is what appears to be vermilion markings but unreadable, so far.

Images of the ringer are below. It has small coils. I have no experience with Kellogg so have never seen this type of ringer before. It does ring using my 20m Hz Dsine ring generator. The base mounted ringer seems to be in better condition than the internal parts mounted to the housing.

Maybe someone else can answer the ringer questions. Seems to be original to the phone, though.,

[rdelius]

That is the proper SL ringer.You are missing the shield over the gongs

[TelePlay]

That is the proper SL ringer.You are missing the shield over the gongs

Robby,

Thanks.

And, yes, I have the shield, took it off to get an image of the clapper and gongs. The little screws they used to hold the cover on are quite rusted but I think salvageable. Got a feeling I'm going to run into that a lot more as I get into the phone.

Is the adjustable screw in the bottom of one side of the clapper pivot plate used as a volume control?

[poplar1]

Also missing the biasing spring.
Unless you're really bored, you could just save the Bakelite parts and wait for a broken 925 set to turn up. Most of them have damage to the Bakelite housing and or stress crack in the handset.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5847.msg70248#msg70248

[TelePlay]

Figured that is what the empty screw was used for. Probably rusted away, lot of "dirt" inside the phone when opened which could have been rusted spring pieces.

Some members have phoneitis, I think I have something related to "trying to save every mutt in the pound" syndrome.

[TelePlay]

The ringer mount screws broke loose easily after a few hours of penetrating oil. When I flipped the base plate ringer side up, I noticed the ringer does have a volume control, the gongs pivot by loosening a set screw.

Also found the missing dial blank mounting plate, the one on the right. It was magnetically stuck on the bottom of the ringer clapper plate. It was in perfect condition, no rust, unlike the one still in place.

Also found the 1/4" remnant of the bias spring still attached to the ringer. Yes, it rusted away over time. So, the project continues.

[unbeldi]

925 HAS

THe HA, HB, HC letter groups seem to stand for the three frequency systems. The frequency was encoded by an additional digit at the end. This is consistent with the well known designations of all later ringers as well.

The only interesting detail here is the use of the X in the catalog designations.  Is it a placeholder perhaps for yet another characteristics?

In that case, perhaps the S in your set indicates a straight-line ringer?  Normally, Kellogg's straight-line ringers are traditionally classified as SA, SB, and SC, for high, medium, and low impedance.  [PS: The biased versions, are BA, BB, and BC, though.]

However, even those models that do not come with a ringer installed, are listed as having an X, such as LRX.

Divided, i.e. non-metallic ringing via ground with a three-conductor cord is indicated by the prefix B- to the type number.

A C indicates a condenser, and L the induction coil.  For example,  a 926-C-LR has both for local battery service.
An R seems to indicate on some types the no ringer is furnished.

A plain 925 with only the hookswitch is a 925 or 925A.

So, this does not exactly explain HAS consistently.

[TelePlay]

There is a Kellogg catalog on the TCI from 1949. While it does have some info on the 925, the ringer section does not include a 123, only 126 which must have been the replacement along the way. As for HAX, that is confusing in that "H" is harmonic ringer but it is a SL ringer so the HAS seems to say "harmonic straight line" but haven't found reference to that yet.

The document unbeldi attached a few replies ago shows a 123 ringer so going by that as the original ringer.

Found a 1936 Kellogg catalog but it's mostly magneto stuff with some MasterPhone equipment. Not a real detailed catalog (document attached) either.

================

Now, QUESTION: trying to get the handset apart. I got the transmitter ring, cup and element out after a bit of oiling. But I can't get the receiver cap off. Such a small area to grab. I use a 8x10 inch piece of old truck inner tube to grip the cap but I can't get it to move. I tried (not in the order stated here) WD-40, penetrating oil, soaking in soapy water, acetone mixed with penetrating oil, hair dryer, over at 140 degrees for half an hour and tapping it on a cloth covered board. FRUSTRATED. I'm down to penetrating oil and letting it sit over night.

Any thing I missed that might work? Searched the forum (where I came up with most of the above) but it's still stuck like glue on the handset. Any suggestions on what to do now? What to repeat?

[19and41]

The last recalcitrant cap I had, I got off with a plastic bodied strap wrench.  If the assembly is bakelite, a few drops of peppermint oil in addition to what oil you have on it could help.

[unbeldi]

I have found that Bakelite caps are best taken off in the midst of summer.
Not a joke.

One time, it was winter time, I wanted to open several E1 handsets to inspect for dates. I had opened these before, I was sure, but they just wouldn't give it up. I used some oil, let it sit, used a heat gun... no success. But I got distracted from the problem and got back to them the next summer, and all handsets came apart without any effort whatsoever.

I don't know how that applies to Kellogg No. 27 handsets, but I have found that narrow ring to be troublesome too, at least once, IIRC, but I don't remember anything about the receiver.

[WEBellSystemChristian]

I have found that Bakelite caps are best taken off in the midst of summer.
Not a joke.

One time, it was winter time, I wanted to open several E1 handsets to inspect for dates. I had opened these before, I was sure, but they just wouldn't give it up. I used some oil, let it sit, used a heat gun... no success. But I got distracted from the problem and got back to them the next summer, and all handsets came apart without any effort whatsoever.

Could it have something to do with airborne moisture?

Heat is a factor in both cases, but Winter weather is very dry, and the oil may not be moisturizing enough.