Author Topic: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?  (Read 3312 times)

Offline HowardPgh

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How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« on: December 17, 2012, 10:08:37 AM »
I am not sure what you call these connectors, but I am referring to the type you see on outside terminal (ie:122 type) receivers and radio headsets.
Is there a method for successfully soldering them to the cloth cords?
Pictures would be helpful to me.
Howard
Howard

Offline Owain

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 10:49:46 AM »
phone cords are usually 'tinsel' cable which uses very fine copper threads twisted in with cotton fillers. It's a complete pain to solder which is why most connectors these days are crimped.

Offline Jester

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 08:49:58 PM »
Regardless the style wire you are using, it has been my experience that "tinning" the exposed ends of the wire prior to soldering it to the terminal makes for a more successful bond.  By tinning, I am referring to soldering the bare ends of the wire before attempting to solder it to the terminal--it gives the solder something to stick to.  The crimped connectors are definitely easier, but aren't always original.
Stephen

Offline DavePEI

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 11:58:41 PM »
I think we are getting a bit off topic here. What the question was was about Phone Tip Connectors, not spades, etc. This consists of a sleeve which goes over the single cloth cord and conductor, and which narrows down at the end to fit into a binding post.

My simple answer is doing anything with tinsel cords is a real pain in the butt. Simple. The trick is to get rid of as much of the filler material, using lots of flux on the tinsel, and pre-tinning of the tinsel.

I do have a special tool for this job, a CGL 49112 - a tip crimping tool for crimping phone tips onto cloth cords, I have never tried it, as it is so seldom I have a need to attach phone tips to cords.

Best way to describe the tool is it has an end that looks like an eel's mouth. This tool was made for the military - the tip inserted into the end ot "mouth", the cord into the tip, then the tool would crimp the phone tip tightly against the tinsel and the cord braid.

However, it requires that it be a brand new tip - it won't work with an old salvaged one.

Much better than tinning the tinsel, then trying to solder it into the tip  :) Moreover, I have found that you pretty well need to grow a third hand to hold the tip in pliers, another to hold the tinned wire in the tip, and one to hold the solder as you fill the tip with solder :) It is a pain, but possible. I have done it on a few occasions. However, the connection you get isn't as good as a crimp, as the solder and tinning makes the end of the conductor brittle.

I have noticed some phone cords culminating in a tip have a small brass ring crimped onto the conductor, and it is this which is actually soldered into the tip connector leaving the tinsel and filler strands intact, resulting in a more flexible connection.

Dave
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 12:51:15 PM by DavePEI »
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Offline Bill

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 10:50:15 AM »
You're right, Dave. I should have pulled up a picture of a 122 receiver before I posted. I've pulled my posts.

Bill

Offline DavePEI

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 11:35:17 AM »
You're right, Dave. I should have pulled up a picture of a 122 receiver before I posted. I've pulled my posts.

Hi Bill:

I didn't mean for anyone to have to pull their posts - just to bring it back a bit more on topic. We see these tip connectors so seldom these days, it is easy to forget about them. I think vintage radio collectors see them more, as many early vintage communications receivers used them. Of the phone I have I can only think of a few with these, and they were all made before the turn of the 20th century; the 1889 Bell Canada Blake 3 box phone with toll OST receiver, the 1907 AE 11 digit wall phone, and possibly one or two more.

That is why if I didn't also collect tools, I wouldn't bother buying the crimper for them - but when I saw it up for sale some years back, I figured they were rare enough that I might never find another. Some time I am over in the museum, I will take a photo of it. It is an interesting item, and specifically made for the job.

Certainly, soldering them isn't much fun! It would be great is someone knew a source of the little brass crimp rings meant to crimp around the braid intact, which could then be easily soldered into a phone tip. They are tiny when crimped, and fit inside the tip easily for soldering, and being made of brass, solder very easily. As a result, it is the brass ring that is soldered, and the braid is unadulterated.

They wind up being like the tip put on with my tool - the braided tinsel remains intact and because it is only crimped, remains stronger and less likely to break than with actually soldering the tinsel.

Here is a photo of that tool! I bought it from Cliff Sullivan some years ago. I have also posted a small photo of the tip connectors were are talking about.

Dave
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 12:47:14 PM by DavePEI »
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Offline Bill

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 01:46:26 PM »
Dave -

I pulled out a pair of Frost 174 headphones, which would have been about the right time period. The barrel of each phone tip (see photo) measures about 3 mm ID and 4 mm OD. These phone tips are readily available - Mouser has them, for example, as part number 534-1601.

As for the "little brass rings", the folks who make jewelry use crimp tubes (or crimp beads) quite commonly. For a 3mm ID on the phone tip, I would think that a 2.0 mm or 2.5 mm OD tube would work quite nicely, remembering that it will go out of round when crimped and may need a bit of extra clearance. These are also readily available in craft stores or on line. FireMountain Gems is a good source for a lot of this stuff - my wife uses them for jewelry she makes. See for example
http://www.firemountaingems.com/shopping.asp?skw=KWFNCRIMPALL
Most of these these are silver-plated brass, which should take solder quite well. Copper and unplated brass are also available in the list. If you scroll well down on the list, you can even find crimp tubes with a little loop attached to them, which should be great for tying off the phone wire's retaining cord.

The jewelry people also have the crimpers that I described yesterday.

Bill
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 02:06:04 PM by Bill »

Offline DavePEI

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Re: How to Solder "Phone Tip" connectors/terminals?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 03:28:42 PM »

http://www.firemountaingems.com/shopping.asp?skw=KWFNCRIMPALL

The 2.5 mm beads are a bit small - see the update below.... They would work well using our spade crimpers. Just crimp them onto the the tinsel part of the wire, then solder it into the pin connector...

Good photo of the connector. I searched and searched for a good photo, but the tiny one I posted was the only one I found... Nice to see Mouser still has them.

http://ca.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=aNr0Yui8wHacrbKizm95FA==

Update: I have tried a number of sleeves, and I have found the 3x3 Brass crimp beads from Modern Findings to be the best:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/281235400669
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 11:45:52 AM by DavePEI »
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